Zanjeer (1973) by DEI-Eros vs BIG [DVD Shots P5 & 6]

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sknath

Post subject: Zanjeer (1973) by DEI-Eros vs BIG [DVD Shots P5 & 6]

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:45 pm

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 4:17 pm
Posts: 2853
Location: Canada

Zanjeer DVD (DEI-EROS) version: This quality of this DVD has been discussed ad-nauseam. However today I decied to probe further into this dvd. It shows as a progressively encoded DVD on my player, but when I play this dvd, i could get a feel of severe motion artifacts. Then I decided to just do a step by step movement of Frames. (the sequence is the last fight sequence where Pran is bashing up the goons ).

You can clearly notice double images (of Pran's Kurta/hand)

mHafner and others... Can you please comment on this ?

Zanjeer DVD (DEI-EROS) version - questions (mHafner and others) !

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sknath

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 3:16 am

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 4:17 pm
Posts: 2853
Location: Canada

The time-sequence on the DVD would be 2:19:31 onwards. Advance the Frames step-by-step and you will see, double images as well as
some portions of the film having two different structures, like as if it was cut at that point !

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rana

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:44 pm

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6148

sknath, at the time location you gave, as well as at other locations, motion is always represented like that.

At first I thought it is two distinct images from two different frames. The doble images are that sharp. But, looking at scene changes, the images in the two connecting steps are correct. So, it's not two images from two different film frames, then what is it?? Also note that double images are in the motion part of the picture only. It seems like motion encoding problem.

I looked at the Bindu song (Aprox 36 min into the movie). One arm in motion shows up as two arms half as thik. Second half of the arm is where first half of the arm exactly ends up in the next step.

Rana

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Zoran009

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:00 pm

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989

I agree with rana!! motion phenomenon..

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DragunR2

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 8:25 pm

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 3:16 am
Posts: 4259

Can you post screenshots, Sknath?

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asif

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 8:31 pm

Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2002 3:52 pm
Posts: 705
Location: EAST END,LONDON

sknath wrote:

This quality of this DVD has been discussed ad-nauseam. However today I decied to probe further into this dvd. It shows as a progressively encoded DVD on my player, but when I play this dvd, i could get a feel of severe motion artifacts. Then I decided to just do a step by step movement of Frames. (the sequence is the last fight sequence where Pran is bashing up the goons ).

You can clearly notice double images (of Pran's Kurta/hand)

mHafner and others... Can you please comment on this ?

FFS are u disecting the dvd :fight:

is that all u do when u watch a film !!!

if thats how u watch all ur film u must be one sad :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

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sknath

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 9:46 pm

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 4:17 pm
Posts: 2853
Location: Canada

asif wrote:

if thats how u watch all ur film u must be one sad :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

Yeah thats why this question wasnt addressed to ya... I suppose you must be one Happy :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

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rana

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:40 am

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6148

asif wrote:

are u disecting the dvd :fight:

is that all u do when u watch a film !!!

if thats how u watch all ur film u must be one sad

Please correct me if I'm wrong in saying that one of the important mission of zulm.net is to promote Indian DVD quality.

I like Indian Films and want quality Indian DVDs for my collection.

For this reason, I do try to investigate any DVD that I watch and then constructively post flaws if I see any. This has become even more important now, when Indian DVD quality has steadily been going down hill.

Not only DVD, I even look at Indian TV clips from films. Lately Indian Film clips on TV have gone downhill in quality as well. Mostly, there is no proper Film to NTSC Cine-tel transfer (field averaged). Why do Indians get this distinction??

Rana

Edited By rana on 1048477426

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DragunR2

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 4:05 am

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 3:16 am
Posts: 4259

asif wrote:

FFS are u disecting the dvd :fight:

is that all u do when u watch a film !!!

if thats how u watch all ur film u must be one sad :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

One doesn't have to "dissect" an Indian DVD to see lots of problems. Watch most current Hollywood DVDs then watch T-Series Kaante, you will not be pleased! :rolleyes:

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mhafner

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 5:18 pm

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 8:14 pm
Posts: 1086

sknath wrote:

I don't have this DVD.
If you step and get these double images (and you don't
if it's a Hollywood DVD) there can be various reasons:
- it's not progressive but field averaged
- you are confusing film motion blur with video problem
(unlikely)
- the DNR is mixing frames (likely)
- it has the Eros chroma delay problem or some new MPEG
encoder bug

cheers
Michel

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sknath

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 5:47 pm

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 4:17 pm
Posts: 2853
Location: Canada

Hafnre / Dragun here are the shots for the scene I mentioned and for the song Rana mentioned

Look at the First 3 shots....

1.) Double images for the man in the hat

2.) Block making out Pran's face

3.) Same thing as 2.

For the dance sequence, notice how Bindu's hand's have completely disappeared in some shots and reappeared in the others !

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Zoran009

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 5:55 pm

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989

Its COMBING yaar!! showing, field averaging of some sort applied here! IMHO! I dont have this DVD either, may be another GURU can double check his copy for u..

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DragunR2

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 9:09 pm

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 3:16 am
Posts: 4259

Is it possible that the DVD was encoded in video mode for a few seconds, causing those combed frames?

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rana

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 9:12 pm

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6148

sknath wrote:

there may very well be many more such DVDs out there. !

I don't think so.

Zanjeer and SBG are the only two odd ones. SBG encoding is totally different than Zanjeer. SBG problem seems to be in the source.

Also note, DEI only authored it for EROS as per the cover. Could be a 'fee for job' work. Could be that during the conflict days, DEI didn't put their best efforts into this DVD.

Double images could also be a result of one line in the code deleted or shifted, by mistake or deliberate.

Rana

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rana

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 9:18 pm

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6148

DragunR2 wrote:

Is it possible that the DVD was encoded in video mode for a few seconds, causing those combed frames?

The whole DVD is like that. 24 steps per sec.

Recall another DVD like this. It's EVP's Patthar Ke Sanam. Whole DVD is 24 steps per sec and yet half the film is OK in force weave and the remainder gives combing in Force Weave.

I wonder if Faroudja type pixel comparing line doubler might overcome this kind of encoding problems??

Rana

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