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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:39 pm 
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first of all this is a sengh exclusive

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10. 1942 A Love Story (1993)
Vidhu Vinod Chopra first film after his critically acclaimed Parinda. Parinda had made VVC a successful director over night, and why wouldn't it? Parinda is still among the best films of all time. 1942 A Love Story some critics would call a 'mistake' made by VVC. During the time VVC wanted or needed to go into commerical cinema and there was no better way done with 1942 A Love Story. The only reason critics seemed to hate the film as it was below or no where near expecatations compared to Parinda. 1942 A Love Story is not a masterpiece but yes, a very enjoyable fare. VVC certainly knew what he was doing as he a superb cast, extraordinary music (R.D Burman's last music score) and a good script. Originally, VVC wanted to cast Shahrukh Khan for the role of Munna, which then was signed on to Raghuvir Yadav. In today's times, 1942 A Love Story is only see for its wonderful songs but not for the film itself.

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9. Shalimar (1978)
Excluding the fact that Shalimar is one of my favourites, Shalimar was bashed among the Indian critics during the period it had released in 1978-79. Shalimar was seen as an 'Alien' among the Indian market during its released but in the commerical sense it was made pretty filmy for a film come out of the Hollywood film market. Krishna Shah, the director of the film was a born Indian and later raised in America. Shalimar was his first and only Bollywood film as he later stated in a interview that "Bollywood films are just not my thing" as Shalimar proved to be one of the biggest disasters of that time. Certainly if Shalimar was remade in today's time (in the right hands of course) the film would have appealed more. Truely to many Shalimar is considered as a classic as it was one of the most unique films of it's time.

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8. Johnny Gaddar (2007)
A recent memorable film. Marking the debut of a star who is a family member of one of the biggest movie banners in Bollywood, Yashraj films. As a child Neil Nitin Mukesh made two apperances as child artist, Vijay and Jaisi Karni Waise Barni. Neil admitted that he never wanted to make his debut as a romatic hero but as an action hero. Johnny Gaddar was the perfect answer. Sriram Raghavan admitted he inspired this film from Amitabh Bachchan's Parwana and in this film the hero gets inspired from the film for a certain act. Johnny Gaddar bombed at the box office mainly because of the Ramazan festival and many films during the film either go unnoticed or completly blanked out from the cineme, Johnny Gaddar is one such film that went unnoticed at the box office. The film had grown from word of mouth but by that time it was too late. Johnny Gaddar just needed a right time.

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7. No Smoking (2007)
This is one of the most interessting pieces of work by any director and even more interessting the way people reacted to it. The film may be a supreme disaster, and also critics had bashed the film so badly too. The film is a true work of art. The film in content was similar to Tom Cruise's Vanilla Sky, Vanilla Sky was bashed so badly and flopped at the box office too but until the director had came out to tell everyone what the film really was about to puzzled faces. With No Smoking the director Anurag Kashyap has never had one interview discussing what the film really was about, he just kept quiet. No Smoking was bashed by critics mainly because they did not understand the film nor they ever will. No Smoking comes about 10-20 years ahead of the industry. I have never come across such a film which such a brillant script.

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6. Andaz Apna Apna (1994)
Rajkumar Santoshi after making a successful Ghayal, he went straight on to a comedy. Pretty unusual for an action director or he didn't want to be tagged as an action director. During the time Aamir Khan and Salman Khan were two big actors but just going through a series of flops. The confict the two stars had during the point was equal screen length. So Santoshi decided to enchance both the actors having equal screen time. The film was in the making for 4-3 years due to the producer having financial problems and sort on cash for the movie. The film was to end up releasing in 1994, near enough the same time as the super big Hum Aapke Hain Koun...? The film released and bombed. Two reason: Long delay and biggy around the corner. But in today's times, AAA is considered as one of the best comedies of all time. The performing stars Aamir Khan and Salman had both given superb performances and still today, the they did not get another opportunity to share screen space.

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5. Kaash (1987)
Mahesh Bhatt during this time of his career was known for serious cinema. After being acclaimed for films like Arth, Saaransh and Janam he went on to another serious film but this time taking actors with a little stardom. Jackie Shrofff and Dimple Kapadia at this point had were pretty hot. The film released and bombed really badly leaving the financiers all went flat. In the same year Mahesh Bhatt's Anil Kapoor starrer Thikana had the same fate. Both Thikana and Kaash were two excellent films and critics loved both especially Kaash. Kaash has to be one of the best emotional films ever made in Bollywood and Jackie's performance is one of a kind. In the film there is a scene when he finds out that his son is suffering from cancer; when his son asks about the problem and Jackie's reveals has to be Jackie's best scen in his career. I've never seen him perform better.

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4. Agneepath (1991)
Mukul S Anand was really seen as a talented director after he died and people began to look back at his old work. Yash Johar did not really see much success after Dostana, but he was very good when it came to campaining his films. Agneepath was seen as the Bollywood adaption of Brian De Palma's Scarface may be because the character of Vijay Dinanath Chauhan and Tony Montana were similar but comparing the scripts of Agneepath and Scarface is like comparing chalk and cheese. Agneepath was released with huge expectations but the film shocked many people with Amitabh Bachchan's accent which was referred as Amitabh's raspy voice, went against the film. People began to hate the film and made sure the film was taken off from cinema to cinema. The film then later was re-released with Amitabh's original voice and did bring back some of the audience. But today, Amitabh's raspy voice is more preffered as it suited the character much more. Agneepath has to be the best from Dharma Producations and may be the best they ever will give.

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3. Silsila (1981)
Yash Chopra has always made bold films for that time, if its Deewar, Trishul, Lamhe or Mashaal all of them are always seen as bold film. Silsila is one such. Silsila dealt with a extra-matrial affair. This is where Yash Chopra made a mistake, he did make a very classy film but just had made it for the wrong audience. In today's time the film is appreciated in India and people love it as time has just changed but before that the international audience had loved it much more. Silsila is not about extra-matrial affairs or if its right to have one etc but the film was about responsibities and how people should realise such responsibities. If its a friend, lover or even a husband. No doubt that Silsila is a wonderful film; just it was made in a wrong era. The scene where we begin to feel the power is the scene when Amitabh tells Jaya about his affair with Rekha and how he knew he before the marriage and he is now leaving home. One of the best scenes and truly gives you goosebumps.

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2. Lamhe (1991)
To some people it may not be their cup of tea and to some it may be everything, for me, if I saw Lamhe I would not need to see any film for a whole week. Such a daring subject, no director has ever touched. Francis Ford Coppala once said that cinema is about asking society, its suppose to dare and ask through the message it gives. Funny how many directors did not understand this but Yash Chopra has one such message to ask soceity through Lamhe. During the time Yash Chopra felt he needed a newcomer for the role of Viren as an actor with stardom would feel uncomfortable doing this role. Yash Chopra felt that may be Anil Kapoor could do justice to the role and he agreed within a second. This was Anil's third film with Yash Chopra. The film released and people loved the first 1.30 hrs but began to hate the rest. The film bombed badly but did recieve critical appreciation. When it reached to international markets, people embraced Lamhe as the new Silsila. Yash Chopra admitted that people talked him out of changing the ending but he replied with "I am making the film for the ending". Lamhe has to be one of the finest efforet from any director.

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1. Mera Naam Joker (1970)
Imagine. In 2008, Sanjay Dutt was to direct a film casting himself in the title role and in supporting roles Aamir Khan, Salman Khan and Shahrukh Khan were also apart of the project, how does that sound? A similar thing happend several years back with Raj Kapoor, Raj Kapoor had always dreamed of making Mera Naam Joker and did it in such a grand manner. Raj Kapoor casted himself in the title role and in supporting roles he casted Rajendra Kumar, Dharmendra and Manoj Kumar who were ruling the box office during that period. Raj Kapoor had put in his life spendings in this film. Also his middle son, Rishi Kapoor played the young Raj Kapoor in the film. The film released and bombed real badly. No one had ever seen such a supreme disaster collapse so badly at the box office. Raj Kapoor began to struggle for every penny, the biggest problem was the length of the film which went against the film. The film was about 3.30+ hrs. Raj Kapoor had then later made Bobby, the film was funded by his friends or most of it was just free like some of the cast, music directors etc and it worked, Bobby made about four times the money what Mera Naam Joker did. Raj Kapoor said "I gave the world gold, and the threw it back at me. Then I gave them coal, they embraced it" Mera Naam Joker is a classic that truly desreved success.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:21 pm 
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Good selection, hard to differ except may be MNJ :?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:30 pm 
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I definitely agree with Mera Naam Joker being overlooked. Its a great movie.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:25 pm 
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sengh_15 wrote:
1. Mera Naam Joker (1970)
The film was about 3.30+ hrs.


Clarification: 3:30+ hrs.
This plus time is just 45 min. :lol:

Film length is 4 hrs 15 min.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4457&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=joker&start=60

Just a better choice of heroines in the 2nd and 3rd part and the film would have been a super hit. Actually Mumtaz, who was supposed to play Padmini's role and was fired as RK felt insecure for his son Daboo, in place of Padmini alone would have done the trick.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:05 pm 
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rana wrote:
sengh_15 wrote:
1. Mera Naam Joker (1970)
The film was about 3.30+ hrs.


Clarification: 3:30+ hrs.
This plus time is just 45 min. :lol:

Film length is 4 hrs 15 min.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4457&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=joker&start=60

Just a better choice of heroines in the 2nd and 3rd part and the film would have been a super hit. Actually Mumtaz, who was supposed to play Padmini's role and was fired as RK felt insecure for his son Daboo, in place of Padmini alone would have done the trick.


I agree! But Raj Kapoor's age might be another factor imho.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:39 pm 
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Zoran009 wrote:
Good selection, hard to differ except may be MNJ :?


Thanks man. MNJ to me is a class. May differ to u


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:43 pm 
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rana wrote:
Clarification: 3:30+ hrs.
This plus time is just 45 min. :lol:


LOL, from the top of my mind man!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:39 am 
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Zoran009 wrote:
rana wrote:
Mera Naam Joker:
Just a better choice of heroines in the 2nd and 3rd part and the film would have been a super hit. Actually Mumtaz, who was supposed to play Padmini's role and was fired as RK felt insecure for his son Daboo, in place of Padmini alone would have done the trick.


I agree! But Raj Kapoor's age might be another factor imho.

Perhaps not. In those days Indian audiences didn't mind hero's age. Recall, Dev Annand, Dilip Kumar, Raj Kumar (all about same age or older) played romantic heroes in many successful films years after Mera Naam Joker.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:14 am 
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rana wrote:
Zoran009 wrote:
rana wrote:
Mera Naam Joker:
Just a better choice of heroines in the 2nd and 3rd part and the film would have been a super hit. Actually Mumtaz, who was supposed to play Padmini's role and was fired as RK felt insecure for his son Daboo, in place of Padmini alone would have done the trick.


I agree! But Raj Kapoor's age might be another factor imho.

Perhaps not. In those days Indian audiences didn't mind hero's age. Recall, Dev Annand, Dilip Kumar, Raj Kumar (all about same age or older) played romantic heroes in many successful films years after Mera Naam Joker.


I thought all elderly dilip films flopped? :?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:09 pm 
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Sorry if we are going off topic ?? May be it's still within the scope of this thread, why these films bombed ??

Mera Naam Joker & Raj Kapoor's age: This could be a factor but I don't think it was a major factor as most of the Raj Kapoor role is under heavy joker make-up. BTW, the following films with actors, in a romantic role, as old as Raj Kapoor in MNJ, were hits or the actors stayed on as romantic leads:

(I'm not including Amitabh & SRK, because of different times, although they too acted as romantic leads when older than RK's age in M N J.)
Mera Naam Joker release date 1970.
So, he was 45 Yrs old when M N J released and must have been just 41-45 when M N J was shot)

(DOB: Dilip 1922, Raj Kapoor Dec 1924, Dev Annand 1923, Raj Kumar 1926)

Raj Kumar:
Maryada (1971)
Paakeezah (1972)
Dil Ka Raja (1972)
Karmayogi (1978)
Bulundi (1980) (not sure if it was a romantic lead ??)

Dev Annand:
Duniya (1968)
Mahal (1969)
Johny Mera Naam (1970)
Prem Pujari (1970)
Gambler (1971) ..
Tere Mere Sapne (1971)
Haré Raama Haré Krishna (1971)
Banarasi Babu (1973)
Chhupa Rustam (1973)
Joshila (1973)
Amir Garib (1974)
Darling Darling (1977)
Des Pardes (1978)
Lootmaar (1980)
Swami Dada (1982)

Dilip Kumar:
Aadmi (1968)
Sagina Mahato (1970) (not sure if Dilip was hero ??)
Gopi (1970)
Dastaan (1972)
Sagina (1974)
Bairaag (1976)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:56 pm 
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rana wrote:
Raj Kumar:
Maryada (1971)
Paakeezah (1972)
Dil Ka Raja (1972)
Karmayogi (1978)
Bulundi (1980) (not sure if it was a romantic lead ??)

Raj Kumar did not have romantic roles in Karmayogi (1978), Bulandi (1980) & later Marte Dam Tak. I think these films were hit for Raj Kumar's dialogs.
Karmayogi: Jeetendra & Reena Roy as romantic pair
Bulandi: Danny & Kim as romantic pair


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:34 pm 
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Quote:
Dilip Kumar:
Aadmi (1968)
Sagina Mahato (1970) (not sure if Dilip was hero ??)
Gopi (1970)
Dastaan (1972)
Sagina (1974)
Bairaag (1976)


I thought all of Dilip/Saira films were FLOPS? :?

Devanand..is still a lead! So I do not count him..period!

May be in Kappor's family, they start looking outdated when still relatively young lol :lol: just genetics!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:43 pm 
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Zoran009 wrote:
May be in Kappor's family, they start looking outdated when still relatively young lol :lol: just genetics!

:lol: That reminds me, Raj's father Prithviraj Kapoor (born 1906) was in a romantic love triangle lead with Dara Singh and Nishi in Lutera (1965 release), when he was 58-59 Yrs old. BTW, Lutera was a super hit film, not one but all songs of Lutera were superhits too.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:28 am 
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VijayDinanathChavan wrote:
rana wrote:
Raj Kumar:
Maryada (1971)
Paakeezah (1972)
Dil Ka Raja (1972)
Karmayogi (1978)
Bulundi (1980) (not sure if it was a romantic lead ??)

Raj Kumar did not have romantic roles in Karmayogi (1978), Bulandi (1980) & later Marte Dam Tak. I think these films were hit for Raj Kumar's dialogs.
Karmayogi: Jeetendra & Reena Roy as romantic pair
Bulandi: Danny & Kim as romantic pair


raj kumar latest was pakeezah where he replaced dharmendra , or Lal Pathar where he is portrayed old though same like Dilip's Dud Qilla! :(


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:33 am 
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Didn't Raj Kumar have Dharm Kanta in 70's as well :?


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