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RNJBOND
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:35 pm 
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dograk wrote:
Sanjay wrote:
I fail to understand why there is any debate about 'Monsoon Wedding' being an Indian film, it was produced by an Indian company, it had Indian actors, was shot in India, is in the local Indian language (Hindi, Punjabi & English all very much local Indian languages) and the director is of Indian decent (I am not sure of Mira Nair's citizen status). Does a film have to be made by the regular "Bollywood" fools for it to qualify as an Indian film? By the way the film was elligible to be entered from India for the Academy Awards, I would think all these facts make the film very much Indian.

On the other hand 'Bend It Like Beckham' is a British production, directed by a British Citizen with almost all British actors (some of Indian decent but British) except for Anupam Kher and it is also in just English (British accent to the boot) and the film qualifies as a British entry for the Academy Awards.

monsoon wedding was produced by IFC Productions, which isn't an indian company. It was also shot in Italy, not only delhi. the movie was conceptualised in the US, was scripted in the US, and was paid for by an american company. ultimately, i think that settles the issue - it was not produced or conceptualized by an indian company and in any case, the director left india almost 30 yrs ago.
secondly, the movie was NOT eligible for the oscars.

and i wholeheartedly agree that BILB isn't indian - but neither is MW.

Look at the Golden Globe Nominations for last year... you'll find Monsoon Wedding on there for foreign film from India. Enough said.
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dograk
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:36 pm 
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it may be eligible for those awards - but it isn't eligible for the academy awards...
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dograk
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:38 pm 
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hows about the production company behind it...? :)


yaar, this could go on forever - i'd rather just say that its inconclusive; we could rather just agree that the definition of a domestic movie is rather unclear...
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RNJBOND
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:39 pm 
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dograk wrote:
it may be eligible for those awards - but it isn't eligible for the academy awards...

I think the fact that it represented India at the Golden Globes shows that it is in fact an Indian film.
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dograk
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:42 pm 
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well then the fact that it was declared ineligible for the academy awards shows that it might not be indian...

do you consider American Desi an indian movie?
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Moviezzz
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 3:40 pm 
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RNJBOND wrote:
Look at the Golden Globe Nominations for last year... you'll find Monsoon Wedding on there for foreign film from India. Enough said.

The Golden Globes are no way to judge a film's status. They are kind of seen as a joke in the movie industry. Their rules are all over the place. Remember, Pia Zadora won a Golden Globe.

Mira Nair made most of her films in the US and lives in the US. She's an American director (who graduated from Harvard, lived in the US since, made non Indian films) making an Indian film. The fact that she is Indian may make it seem otherwise, but it really can't be considered a true Indian film.
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 5:58 pm 
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Location: National Capital Region (India)
Quote:
It was also shot in Italy, not only delhi.
That is absolutely not true, each and every single frame of Monsoon Wedding was shot in Delhi, India. By the where a film is shot has absolutely nothing to do with determining what nation a film is from.

Quote:
the director left india almost 30 yrs ago.
The nationality of the director or where he/she lives is not a criteria for determining a films origins. Based on your arguments, 'Elizabeth' would qualify as an Indian film since it's director is an Indian citizen.

Quote:
secondly, the movie was NOT eligible for the oscars
That too is absolutely not true. The film was very much eligible for the academy awards in the foreign film category from India and in my opinion, as in the opinion of a lot of hollywood people in the know, would have stood a far better chance of winning compared to Lagaan. If only the idiots from the Film Federation Of India (the commitee is mostly Bollywood guys) had chosen Monsoon Wedding as the entry. By the way the FFI gave as a reason for not selecting Monsoon Wedding, the fact that it was not made by a traditional Bollywood crew.

Quote:
another point tho, is that of the crew 99% is gora....
Hmmm.. did not know that Kaante was an American film, your argument would suggest that.

Quote:
well then the fact that it was declared ineligible for the academy awards shows that it might not be indian...
do you consider American Desi an indian movie?
The film was never declared ineligible for the academy awards and NO I do not consider 'American Desi' to be an Indian film.

Quote:
The Golden Globes are no way to judge a film's status. They are kind of seen as a joke in the movie industry.
On the contrary, the Golden Globe Awards are very well respected and infact they are considered a percussor to the Academy Awards, which give a glimpse of what to expect on Oscar night.



Edited By Sanjay on 1051207305
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dograk
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:30 pm 
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1. i am not absolutely wrong - you are. monsoon wedding WAS shot in italy. think i'm wrong? see here: http://www.hollywood.com/movies/detail/movie/420583. now, i myself, never knew that fact, but its always good to learn and accept something new...by the way, it was you who intially said that
Quote:
was shot in India
thus bringing the location into the discussion...

2. you youself said
Quote:
the director is of Indian decent
, and so brought in nationality into the debate...for all intensive purposes, mira nair is close to american as you can get (if she isn't, but i have no way of knowing..), since as moviezz said, she gradutated from harvard, started making movies in the US, and has lived in the US since...

3. i agree with you, that monsoon wedding would have been a better choice for the oscars - it had a much better chance of winning, for sure. (btw, who are these "hollywood people in the know".). but, as said here, http://thefilmexperience.net/Awards/200 ... redix.html Monsoon Wedding was NOT eligible. why? i don't know. but it wasn't.

4. about the crew issue, while you are right in that kaante was in a similar boat, they're different issues. in monsoon wedding, other than ONE person, everyone was gora. in kaante, numerous people were indian - however, all techincal aspects were handled by goras.

5. Exactly! if american desi isn't indian, then neither is monsoon wedding!

6. the golden globes are a precursor to the oscars. but they really are considered a joke, because Despite its worldwide audience of millions, the Golden Globe Awards are generally regarded as a joke in Hollywood. The Globes are voted on by the Hollywood Foreign Press Association (HFPA), a collective of aproximately 80 foreign journalists - and in some of the less popular categories, it can take as few as five votes for a film or television series to win! (source: http://www.google.ca/search?....e=UTF-8).

yaar, as i have said, this issue is very muddled - more than anything, i would rather say that the definition of the nationality of a film is a debatable issue....
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RNJBOND
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:40 pm 
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1. Oh, I guess Kabhi Khushi wasn't an Indian film... it was shot extensively in England. Besides, your website says it was shot in Italy, mine doesn't (I think I trust IMDB a bit more). Show me some reliable source that proves that it was shot in Italy and where in Italy. Even then, the point remains.

2. Let's ask you this: If I went to India and made a Bollywood film, would it not be considered an Indian film because I am an American citizen (I was actually born in this country as well)?

3. How about instead of looking at some random speculative website, we look at the rules for Oscar submissions? It fits all... you may question the use of English in the movie, but there is an additional clause that allows it. Either way, I don't feel the Academy is the best criterion by which to measure country of origin for a film. The Warrior is definitely a British film, but it was ineligible for the Academy...

4. Most of the main actors in Monsoon Wedding were Indian, no?

5. http://us.imdb.com/Title?0203289
Quote:
Runtime: 100 min
Country: USA
Language: English
Color: Color
Sound Mix: DTS


6. The mention of Golden Globes has nothing to do with its prominence in the industry. The issue is eligibility. I do not see how the Golden Globes being regarded as a "joke" undermines the simple fact that Monsoon Wedding was nominated for best foreign film from India.
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dograk
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:55 pm 
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Your ability to comprehend diction seems to be fairly limited, since all the issues you make (i.e. country, nationality, etc.) are all points that were first mentioned by Sanjay! I didn't mention them - I merely responded to them. I don't consider them useful criteria in determining a film's nationality, BUT, I will respond to inaccuracies when they are used for that purpose.

Additionally, disregarding your ignorance regarding the reliability of IMDB (considering that users submit information, and so it cannot be cross-checked) I urge you to look further down IMDB's own page for Monsoon Wedding, http://us.imdb.com/Title?0265343 where it lists the country the movie is from as: India / USA / France / Italy . Italy? Yes, Italy.

Secondly, Mira Nair is as I mentioned close enough to an American. She might, or might not, be an American citizen. You don't know for sure, and neither do I. But, she graduated from Harvard and has lived in the US since. But,
Quote:
2. Let's ask you this: If I went to India and made a Bollywood film, would it not be considered an Indian film because I am an American citizen (I was actually born in this country as well)?
if you made the film with an all-American crew, with American financing, and did all the technical work in America, then I would consider it an American movie.

Thirdly, your lack of knowledge about the Oscars is plainly evident. Nathaniel, from The Film Experience, (the site I referenced from), is very respected for his knowledge of the Foreign Film category at the Oscars. DVD COLLECTOR, I'm sure, would back me up on that point :laugh:

Fourthly, the mention of the Golden Globes as a joke was meant to underline it's distinct lack of standing. If they accepted the nomination of Monsoon Wedding as an Indian film - good for them. However, they do have a distinct lack of credibility....How many times was Zsa Zsa Gabor nominated?

Additionally, I'd like to make a new point - Will The Invaders be defined as an INDIAN movie? Please, RNJBOND and Sanjay, tell me why it should be classified as an Indian movie? Why isn't it a Hollywood flick.....?
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RNJBOND
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 4:15 am 
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Wow, we've reached a new low here. Let's personally attack people to make our points stronger. :rolleyes:

Good job with all the non-points as well. Why not e-mail one of the actual foreign film academy members and ask?
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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:13 pm 
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In its 4th week in Ottawa, it has expanded from one theatre to 3 Big Screen Big Sound theatres. From 4 shows daily to 12 shows daily.

Along with World Exchange, its starting its run at AMC Kanata and Silver City. All Silver City theatres are best in Ottawa, all of them Big Screens and THX certified.

Rana
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Mr_Khiladi
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 6:49 pm 
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As far as I know Monsoon Wedding was shot entirely in New Delhi. For it being shot in Italy is news to me. There was no point for it to be shot in Italy. Also it was shot in one month, so I doubt they had time to go to Italy.

If there was any scene shot in Italy it may be the studio scene at the beginning or any indoor scene, though I don't know why they would do that, since India has more than enough locations. Maybe something to do with the film mastering or transfer etc (I don't know about this technical stuff) was done at a studio in Italy because of better facilities? I don't know.
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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 6:56 pm 
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1)
BTW, Mr Bekham (Soccer player) was in the news yesterday. News was something to do with his switching national team, or retirement??

2)
They could promote it better by announcing a portion of ticket sales going to local Soccer clubs. Soccer has really taken off in Canada. This way, word will spread out into the crucial teenage Soccer lovers.

Rana
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dograk
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:19 pm 
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RNJBOND wrote:
Wow, we've reached a new low here. Let's personally attack people to make our points stronger. :rolleyes:

Good job with all the non-points as well. Why not e-mail one of the actual foreign film academy members and ask?

good job continuing to insist that they're my non-points....:rolleyes:

and btw, the low was reached when you, in your numerous arguments with me, attacked me first...:) :thumbs:
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