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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:22 pm 
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We've been asked by some of our customers what is stopping us in encoding our DVDs in 24fps. Frankly, it's very simple to do it as it's just a configuration setting. But the limitations are many. We want to assure our customers that we are not comprimising on picture quality by not doing in 24fps(Movie-Mode). Hardware/software's we use control video quality based on compression amount used. If we encode in 24fps, and use less compression like we do now, we have to do 2 dvd's for most movies as we can't take away PLAY ALL SONGS feature from our dvd's as most customers prefer to have that feature. So, size is the main reason for holding us in doing this. 24fps with our current compression will allow only 90-100 minutes of movie (with DD5.1 or DTS track) per disc. We did various tests encoding in 24fps with higher compression(to fit on one DVD) and our current settings(less compression) and the video quality looked better with our current settings.

There are better hardware/software that will do good compression and get the movie on one dvd but the prices of those equipment is beyong our market potential.

The reason we were able to do some of our old Hindi titles in Progressive mode was because we used a different system which had good compression for 24fps mode. But, we moved away from that because of the limitations it had in getting good DD 5.1 audio.

Good News!

We will soon be encoding some Songs DVDs and TRY few old titles like Hello Brother in 24fps. Once we succeed in it, we will continue that process for all future releases which we want to do very soon. The timeline for that is not confirmed yet as we want to first add some new titles to our catalog. Also, our fight against piracy is taking much of our time. With the help of our customers, we will soon win our fight against piracy and will be able to dedicate more of our time and strength towards making better quality DVDs. We will also add a list of Coming Soon titles to our website soon. Some of our coming soon titles are taking longer time as we are working with the movie rights holders to get the best source(film) possible to make our DVDs. Sometimes, we get film that is bad at some parts. In such cases, we get stuck for a while in finding the right source longer than we all want.


http://www.evpdvd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12&PN=1


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:31 pm 
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ganti wrote:
We've been asked by some of our customers what is stopping us in encoding our DVDs in 24fps. Frankly, it's very simple to do it as it's just a configuration setting. But the limitations are many. We want to assure our customers that we are not comprimising on picture quality by not doing in 24fps(Movie-Mode). Hardware/software's we use control video quality based on compression amount used. If we encode in 24fps, and use less compression like we do now, we have to do 2 dvd's for most movies as we can't take away PLAY ALL SONGS feature from our dvd's as most customers prefer to have that feature. So, size is the main reason for holding us in doing this. 24fps with our current compression will allow only 90-100 minutes of movie (with DD5.1 or DTS track) per disc. We did various tests encoding in 24fps with higher compression(to fit on one DVD) and our current settings(less compression) and the video quality looked better with our current settings.

There are better hardware/software that will do good compression and get the movie on one dvd but the prices of those equipment is beyong our market potential.

The reason we were able to do some of our old Hindi titles in Progressive mode was because we used a different system which had good compression for 24fps mode. But, we moved away from that because of the limitations it had in getting good DD 5.1 audio.

Good News!

We will soon be encoding some Songs DVDs and TRY few old titles like Hello Brother in 24fps. Once we succeed in it, we will continue that process for all future releases which we want to do very soon. The timeline for that is not confirmed yet as we want to first add some new titles to our catalog. Also, our fight against piracy is taking much of our time. With the help of our customers, we will soon win our fight against piracy and will be able to dedicate more of our time and strength towards making better quality DVDs. We will also add a list of Coming Soon titles to our website soon. Some of our coming soon titles are taking longer time as we are working with the movie rights holders to get the best source(film) possible to make our DVDs. Sometimes, we get film that is bad at some parts. In such cases, we get stuck for a while in finding the right source longer than we all want.


http://www.evpdvd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12&PN=1

Ganti this is called BS'ing !... When you use 24fps you DO NOT necessarily use LESS compression !... What you do is do not encode the garbage frames (every 5th repeated frame) and that gives you a saving of 25%... This has nothing to do with audio compression.....
Audio and video compression are disjoint features in an encoder setup and they are interleaved by the decoder ! (so that you get proper decoding and no lip-sync problems) ...

I for one will not buy any of their DVDs until they actually correct their video encoding procedure !.. I wish Sudhakar could understand this :(

As for the play-all-songs feature, all it requires is a simple program to enable to decoder to move to those specific points in the file stream (read chapter breaks) that contains a song.. You do not need to re-encode the songs !




Edited By sknath on 1048707207


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:45 pm 
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Sknath
Quote:
Ganti this is called BS'ing !... When you use 24fps you DO NOT necessarily use LESS compression !... What you do is do not encode the garbage frames (every 5th repeated frame) and that gives you a saving of 25%... This has nothing to do with audio compression.....
Audio and video compression are disjoint features in an encoder setup and they are interleaved by the decoder ! (so that you get proper decoding and no lip-sync problems) ...

I for one will not buy any of their DVDs until they actually correct their video encoding procedure !.. I wish Sudhakar could understand this

As for the play-all-songs feature, all it requires is a simple program to enable to decoder to move to those specific points in the file stream (read chapter breaks) that contains a song.. You do not need to re-encode the songs !

While I respect your views on Progressive encoding, as far as I know nobody here really knows what is going on with the actual encoding process.
In this aspect I am willing to accept their explanation on compression although I have some issues with it (like play all). I am open to change my view if I find a better explanation from some one who knows about it for a fact, but not an assumption.

Note:
I don't mean to offend any one. Believe me, I prefer progressive encoding more than any thing else, but I am willing to give some time when they are really trying hard to make it right.




Edited By ganti on 1048708432


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:55 pm 
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CORRECTION: What I wrote here, actually I noticed in Shemaroo DVDs. I'll check tonite if it applies to EVP discs or not.

Recording Songs all over again, just to give an option to play all songs un-intrrupted, is wastage of resources. Let's say there are 5 songs plus 15 chapters (10 min chapter). They can easily insert a chapter mark at the song location and we end up with 15 - 20 chapters/ song stops. If someone wants to watch songs only, it takes less than a minute to program play songs only from DVD players.

Songs recorded separately can be justified if the duplicated recording had a better audio and video, but it never has. They use exactly the same encoding repeated at a new location on the disc.

Separate Songs on the disc is a good feature for the ignorants though.

Rana

I'm glad that EVP, AYN etc. are trying to encode in 24 fps mode. Let's give them a chance.




Edited By rana on 1048709546


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:58 pm 
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Rana,
Quote:
Recording Songs all over again, just to give an option to play all songs un-intrrupted is wastage of resources. Let's say there are 5 songs plus 15 chapters (10 min chapter). They can easily insert a chapter mark at the song location and we end up with 15 - 20 chapters/ song stops. If someone wants to watch songs only, it takes less than a minute to program play songs only from DVD players.

Songs recorded separately can be justified if the duplicated recording had a better audio and video, but it never has. They use exactly the same encoding repeated at a new location on the disc.

Separate Songs on the disc is a good feature for the ignorants though

I don't think EVP doing this. I have scanning through the vob files and they have not separately recorded the songs.




Edited By ganti on 1048709428


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:05 pm 
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That's good then. I'll check on my EVP Hindi DVDs.

I guess, I got carried away and wrote in this EVP thread, what I observed in Shemaroo DVDs. Shemaroo's Ghai collection discs do have the option of playing songs only and the disc indicator shows play all songs' recorded at a different location on the disc.CORRECTION: EVEN IN SHEMAROO, SONGS ARE NOT RECORDED AGAIN. see my post Mar 30.

Rana




Edited By rana on 1049027285


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:09 pm 
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BTW Ganti, if you get a chance, please ask on EVP forum or direct e-mail:

Is EVP aware that their Rampur Ka Luxman DVD doesn't play on most (or may be any) DVD players. What's the reason and if they have fixed it??

Thanks.

Rana


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:16 pm 
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Rana,
most of the Telugh disks I have from EVP does have Play all songs option, and all of them recorded properly means they did not record songs separately.
I will sure ask the question about Rampur Ka Luxman, but it seems like they are not doing any thing right now about Hindi DVDs. Hopefully that may change soon.




Edited By ganti on 1048710118


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:54 pm 
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Why can't they use a dual layer disk?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:14 am 
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I have 3 of EVP's progressive Hindi DVDs, and they include a "Songs Audio" option, where the song is played and a still frame from the song is shown on screen, which is a waste of space. I'm pretty sure that in the "Songs Video" option, the songs aren't encoded twice.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 2:56 pm 
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ganti wrote:
most of the Telugh disks I have from EVP does have Play all songs option, and all of them recorded properly means they did not record songs separately.

Ganti,

Are you sure? I have seen that they have stored the songs again separately. I will verify that tonight. I will look at the Santosham DVD since you have it also. That way we can verify each others' findings


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:00 pm 
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technogeek wrote:
Why can't they use a dual layer disk?

They use Dual Layer discs.

Rana


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:06 pm 
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Ok Jag,
I will check Santosham tonight. I remember scanning through Hello Brother and Allari Alludu, songs are not repeated.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:20 am 
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You are right. There are no separate VOB files. But there are two titles in VTS_02. Tirle 1 is of length 2:29:59 (The movie I assume) and Title 2 is of length 0:29:35 (I assume the songs). I had assumed that this meant that the songs were being stored separately again.

Since my knowledge of the VOB files is limited I do not know if this means the data is tored only once


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:33 am 
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From the following link, it seems that two titles can be stored in the same VOB file, which could mean that the data is actually stored twice

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/dvd-structure.htm


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