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DragunR2
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 1:35 am 
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There was some Natalie Imbruglia CD that couldn't be played in CD-ROM drives because of copy protection. Is this the same thing as on the Celine Dion CD? I would consider anything making a Celine Dion CD unplayable ear protection! :)

Sknath, you keep mentioning IMAX resolution. Would its purpose for "regular" films be to have the ability to zoom into the picture?
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sknath
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 4:12 am 
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DragunR2 wrote:
There was some Natalie Imbruglia CD that couldn't be played in CD-ROM drives because of copy protection. Is this the same thing as on the Celine Dion CD? I would consider anything making a Celine Dion CD unplayable ear protection! :)

Sknath, you keep mentioning IMAX resolution. Would its purpose for "regular" films be to have the ability to zoom into the picture?

Again, the technology we use for "Zooming" today , will become obselete if the next-gen DVDs arrive. Suppose you wish to zoom on a particular scene in ur fav movie, th etechnology that we presently have performs some sort of bi-linear or bi-cubic interpolation so as to "enhance the image".. You must have seen, how discomforting that becomes. (blockiness.. being the most apparent)

Now suppose you have more image info encoded in your DVD. (say a 3000 x 4000 image resolution), and now you are watching the movie at a resolution of 1024x768 ... and now suddenly you wanna find out more closely " what exactly did Michael Douglas do to Jeanne Tripplehorn in Basic Instinct :D :D ".
Now since that scene was encoded originally at 3000 x 4000 all you have to do is.. switch to that display setting and you will get the image at that info.. This is different that "zooming" into the picture whereby you have loss in image quality !
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mhafner
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 11:55 am 
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sknath wrote:
DragunR2 wrote:
There was some Natalie Imbruglia CD that couldn't be played in CD-ROM drives because of copy protection. Is this the same thing as on the Celine Dion CD? I would consider anything making a Celine Dion CD unplayable ear protection! :)

Sknath, you keep mentioning IMAX resolution. Would its purpose for "regular" films be to have the ability to zoom into the picture?

Again, the technology we use for "Zooming" today , will become obselete if the next-gen DVDs arrive. Suppose you wish to zoom on a particular scene in ur fav movie, th etechnology that we presently have performs some sort of bi-linear or bi-cubic interpolation so as to "enhance the image".. You must have seen, how discomforting that becomes. (blockiness.. being the most apparent)

Now suppose you have more image info encoded in your DVD. (say a 3000 x 4000 image resolution), and now you are watching the movie at a resolution of 1024x768 ... and now suddenly you wanna find out more closely " what exactly did Michael Douglas do to Jeanne Tripplehorn in Basic Instinct :D :D ".
Now since that scene was encoded originally at 3000 x 4000 all you have to do is.. switch to that display setting and you will get the image at that info.. This is different that "zooming" into the picture whereby you have loss in image quality !

That would require storage capacity well beyond current
and proposed DVD standards. And studios will simply not
give out digital masters at 4K resolution because that's
the best they will have themselves for many years to come.
And most films do not have more resolution anyway than 4K
so this is the best it will ever be for these films. They
will restrict this quality to digital projection in cinemas
with state of the art copy protection.
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sknath
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:12 pm 
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Posts: 2853
Location: Canada
mhafner wrote:
sknath wrote:
DragunR2 wrote:
There was some Natalie Imbruglia CD that couldn't be played in CD-ROM drives because of copy protection. Is this the same thing as on the Celine Dion CD? I would consider anything making a Celine Dion CD unplayable ear protection! :)

Sknath, you keep mentioning IMAX resolution. Would its purpose for "regular" films be to have the ability to zoom into the picture?

Again, the technology we use for "Zooming" today , will become obselete if the next-gen DVDs arrive. Suppose you wish to zoom on a particular scene in ur fav movie, th etechnology that we presently have performs some sort of bi-linear or bi-cubic interpolation so as to "enhance the image".. You must have seen, how discomforting that becomes. (blockiness.. being the most apparent)

Now suppose you have more image info encoded in your DVD. (say a 3000 x 4000 image resolution), and now you are watching the movie at a resolution of 1024x768 ... and now suddenly you wanna find out more closely " what exactly did Michael Douglas do to Jeanne Tripplehorn in Basic Instinct :D :D ".
Now since that scene was encoded originally at 3000 x 4000 all you have to do is.. switch to that display setting and you will get the image at that info.. This is different that "zooming" into the picture whereby you have loss in image quality !

That would require storage capacity well beyond current
and proposed DVD standards. And studios will simply not
give out digital masters at 4K resolution because that's
the best they will have themselves for many years to come.
And most films do not have more resolution anyway than 4K
so this is the best it will ever be for these films. They
will restrict this quality to digital projection in cinemas
with state of the art copy protection.

Ahh now we speak in the same vein Hafner :)

Now whether the studios will give up their masters at 3K by 4k is an altogether different question. They are reluctant to invest any further into this technology as the present state of the art content-protection systems are pretty obselete and they can easily be cracked / hacked. Maybe sometime (sooner rather than later) this feature will change. It will be a very highly superior form of macrovision protection ( for example) that can be incorporated onto the next gen DVDs. !
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DragunR2
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 5:58 pm 
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Posts: 4259
mhafner wrote:
That would require storage capacity well beyond current
and proposed DVD standards. And studios will simply not
give out digital masters at 4K resolution because that's
the best they will have themselves for many years to come.
And most films do not have more resolution anyway than 4K
so this is the best it will ever be for these films. They
will restrict this quality to digital projection in cinemas
with state of the art copy protection.

They're even doing CGI at only about 2K now. HD is even being used sometimes for color correction and image manipulation (The Cell, Jason X). I don't think they do them any higher unless it is for an Imax presentation like Fantasia 2000.
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sknath
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 6:23 pm 
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Dragun, Hafner... if you noticed.. Apollo 13, Star Wars - Ep 2 were also shown on IMAX.. This means blowing up a normal film into an IMAX format. So dont give up yet.. Added to that research is also going on incorporating technologies so that every film (IMAX is extensively negotiating with James Camron) will be shot in 3-D and storing 3-D visual info on a DVD would be the ultimate challenge.. and that too in an IMAX format ! (these dvds of todate... would be something like what a P4 processor is vis-a-vis a 286 of yesteryears) !
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spike86
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 8:30 pm 
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Anybody saw Apollo 13 or Starwars in IMAX?. I am curious to know how these movies looked on the huge screen because Apollo 13 was shot using Super-35 and SW ep.2 using sony HD cameras and none of these methods are known for their superior resolution.
:oo:
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DragunR2
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 3:18 am 
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spike86 wrote:
Anybody saw Apollo 13 or Starwars in IMAX?. I am curious to know how these movies looked on the huge screen because Apollo 13 was shot using Super-35 and SW ep.2 using sony HD cameras and none of these methods are known for their superior resolution.
:oo:

To be fair, IMAX is a 4:3-ish format, so on Apollo 13, the image would be much taller than the OAR 2.35:1. Scenes with extensive CGI in them will be cropped somewhat, though I do not know the aspect ratio at which they were rendered. It is only during the process of extracting 2.35:1 from the Super 35 frame that resolution is lost. Since the entire 1.37:1 Super 35 frame is slightly larger than the 1.37:1 "Academy" frame, S35 will have a slight advantage when blowing up to IMAX.
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sknath
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 6:26 am 
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Dragun again FYI, the blowing operation is where you either lose resolution or are able to maintain resolution. IMAX has some sorta "patented" algorithm which they use to achieve that process, a small scare for one of my colleagues who is working on a similar process (converting a HDTV format to an IMAX format)... But when a director like Ron Howard comments abt the brilliance of his work when shown on an IMAX format , I will have to take his word !
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mhafner
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 5:08 pm 
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spike86 wrote:
Anybody saw Apollo 13 or Starwars in IMAX?. I am curious to know how these movies looked on the huge screen because Apollo 13 was shot using Super-35 and SW ep.2 using sony HD cameras and none of these methods are known for their superior resolution.
:oo:

A friend has seen EP 2. He said it looked very bad. The IMAX software remastering added tons of artifacts. Apollo 13
looked better, but it does not look better than a standard
35mm or 70mm print would, made from the negative. The IMAX
process does not add more detail, it simply reduces the
grain so it's not too obvious when projected to IMAX size
screens. I'm not a fan of IMAX for feature films. And for
home cinema it's useless.
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spike86
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 5:56 pm 
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If anybody is interested in seeing what real IMAX format/process/cameras can do, I highly recommend you watch 'SPACE STATION IMAX 3-D'. The movie and it's mutlichannel sound is an amazing exprience. :thumbs:
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Babelover
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 6:18 pm 
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Posts: 49
Remember when dvd came out new, they charged outrageous prices for dvds, and on most it just contained the film, no special extras such as deleted scenes, the making of etc..
Some companies such as fox was reluctant to adapt to the dvd format thinking it will fail like laser disc.
DVD format is still the best and companies know that and they still charge stupid prices for films.
I am all for IMAX format on a disc, I would say watching movies in a 3D environment will be a totally new experience, opening a lot of new doors for hollywood film makers to experiment with new things to be put into movies.
And as far as blowing up the picture and maintaining 100% of the quality, I dont think anyone would be interested in except a select few.
Looking forward to the new era of entertainment.
Today our mobile phones, music, movies, pictures, satelites, internet and so on is all digital. Can anything possibly mean the end of digital?
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spike86
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 6:28 pm 
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You can get IMAX movies on dvd! Even the 3-D ones, but you have to buy seperate glasses. :)
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sknath
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:41 pm 
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spike86 wrote:
If anybody is interested in seeing what real IMAX format/process/cameras can do, I highly recommend you watch 'SPACE STATION IMAX 3-D'. The movie and it's mutlichannel sound is an amazing exprience. :thumbs:

Spike mate.. you in anyway into 3-D image/video coding ?...
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DragunR2
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 9:27 pm 
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Posts: 4259
mhafner wrote:
spike86 wrote:
Anybody saw Apollo 13 or Starwars in IMAX?. I am curious to know how these movies looked on the huge screen because Apollo 13 was shot using Super-35 and SW ep.2 using sony HD cameras and none of these methods are known for their superior resolution.
:oo:

A friend has seen EP 2. He said it looked very bad. The IMAX software remastering added tons of artifacts. Apollo 13
looked better, but it does not look better than a standard
35mm or 70mm print would, made from the negative. The IMAX
process does not add more detail, it simply reduces the
grain so it's not too obvious when projected to IMAX size
screens. I'm not a fan of IMAX for feature films. And for
home cinema it's useless.

AOTC didn't look great on DLP on a regular sized screen. IIRC, the scene where Anakin and Amidala were in the grass field had a lot of artifacts.
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