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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2002 1:16 pm 
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arsh wrote:
But that does not hold true for VS/SD..JUDWAA, what went wrong there RANA ji!? Prog, yet ABISMAL..VERY BAD!imho :baaa: ???


I intend to sort this out this weekend, for this DVD and other DVDs that you mentioned earlier.

I intend to score the PQ for both cases, interlaced display and progressive display.

Arsh, in order for me to be consistent with your PQ score, I would like you to tell me what score would you give to Dharamveer, Deewana Mastana, Judwaa when played on Interlaced sets and how would you score them if played successully, Force Weaved, on progressive set.

Regarding, PQ score, may be we can keep the same scale as Ganti set as 9 for Dharamveer and 6 or 7 for Deewana Mastana and somewhat lower for Judwaa (4). Also, how would you score any of the typical new releases from EROS.

Rana



Edited By rana on 1031923416
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ganti
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:55 pm 
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Location: columbus
Rana and Arsh,
I have to jump in to give some more clarity to this issue.

1) In a Projector based setup with 8 feet wide screen:
a) Using HTPC the best film mode DVD like KNPH: 9
and the best video based DVD from EVP or from
Ayangran: 4
b) Using a good Progressive scan DVD player: film
mode dvd like KNPH: 7 and the best video based
DVD from EVP or from Ayangran : 5 ( may be 5.5 if
I am very generous)

2) In a typical Wide screen HDTV (55 inch):

a) Using HTPC the best film mode dvd like KNPH: 10
and the best video based dvd from EVP or from
Ayangran : 5 ( I know some people who use HTPC
with HDTV)
b) Using a good progressive scan dvd player: film
mode dvd like KNPH: 8 and the best video based
DVD: 6 (you see the gap is not that wide)

3) In a typical interlaced TV (32 inch):

Using any DVD player the difference between good
film mode DVD vs. good video mode DVD is an
absolute zero.

Note: it all depends upon how we look at it and what we look at it. I know lot of people that are happy with a progressive scan dvd player with a similar projector like me. I assure you that they can only be happy as long as they don't know what a HTPC can do for them. But once you are in, no body can save you from the agony of tweaking and tweaking....



Edited By ganti on 1031929025
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:04 pm 
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Posts: 14989
Yaar! rana/ganti!
I have Prog display(HDTV) via component video, 480p RPTV, prog dvd player!!

Now it looks like we r talking about is?

GOOD prog..KNPH

BAD Prog..JUDWAA

GOOD INTERLACED..EVP/AYANGRAN titlesand DEEWANA MASTAANA by VS?

BAD ..interlaced...ALL the rest JUNK, shit put together?

Am I right?

So, here we can not CONCLUDE that a HINDI film, should be PROG always to be GOOD.

Or INTERLACED always to be BAD!?? :baaa: ???

I agree with ganti's score...

DHARAM VEER..Std aspect..8-9

DEEWANA MASTANA...6-7

JUDWAA..3-4

I thing, BIT RATE of transfer, plays a BIG part too, whether, PROG or interlaced?

BTW!! I'll rank, EROS regular stuff, in 3-5 range, BTW! depending upon, ACCIDENTAL, good transfers, like PUKAR, JOSH, TMSR, PIAM, etc.




??? :baaa:



Edited By arsh on 1031933215
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2002 5:49 pm 
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Posts: 14989
NEW revealation on DEEWANA MASTANA by VS!

Older, SD version, does not have SUBTITLES!
Register..audio as DD 2.0..192kbps.
Same PQ!transfer..video.

Newer REVISED VS version:
include..sub titles.
audio..registers as DD 5.1..384 kbps..more dynamic, punchy ,possibly pseudo 5.1.
Video..same as SD version.
peace :baaa: :ffs:
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rana
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2002 8:17 pm 
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rana wrote:
arsh wrote:
But that does not hold true for VS/SD..JUDWAA, what went wrong there RANA ji!? Prog, yet ABISMAL..VERY BAD!imho :baaa: ???


I intend to sort this out this weekend, for this DVD and other DVDs that you mentioned earlier.

I intend to score the PQ for both cases, interlaced display and progressive display.


Rana

Rating PQ consistently turned out to be a difficult task. I did rate some 9-10 familiar DVDs for a 32 inch interlaced TV but haven't been able to sort out the comparative scores for the progressive display. I found unexpected PQ for progressive display. Will post my comments when I sort out these inconsistencies.

Noting technical details, e.g. whether Film or Video mode on Power DVD, is comparatively easy and is always consistent.



Rana

I think, even more difficult task is reporting on Audio. How do you judge whether true 5.1 or not. How do you know what was the orig. audio to begin with?? Again, it is easy to note what DVD info comes up on the screen. It could very well be be 5.1, but all 6 channels with same info.



Edited By rana on 1032293958
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ganti
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2002 8:24 pm 
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Location: columbus
I agree with you about the Audio. But may be relatively easy when you think about it. Most of the sound track should be confirmed to the left, right and dialogue to the center rather than from all the 6 channels. :D


I always have the same problem as you.



Edited By ganti on 1032295228
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rana
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2002 3:40 pm 
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Posts: 6146
I/we did complete comparative ratings of some 23-24 familiar DVDs, separately for 32 inch interlaced TV and for 18 inch PC monitor using Power DVD.

You may or may not agree with the results, depending on what you value more and also on what picture settings are used. I myself was surprised to see a dull picture when playing JUDWAA on PC. Finally, we found that it lacked color. By adjusting color/ color balance settings, the picture became as good as other similar DVDs.

For Progressive set up:
Some DVDs like Mera Gaaon Mera Desh and Dhadkan, we were unable to correct colors satisfactorily and hence they ended up at the bottom of the pile among progressive DVDs. Still, they ranked, in our opinion, better than interlaced DVDs (when using progressive system).

It is interesting and debatable to see Shemaroo SANGAM move from top of the pile on interlaced TV to bottom of the pile on Progressive system.

Also, it is to note that many DVDs identified as ‘I-3’ and ‘I-4’ may make it to the top DVDs for progressive system if a de-interlacer is able to weave the frames together by pixel to pixel comparison.



COMPARATIVE RATINGS FOR 32 INCH TV(INTERLACED):



Category A

MISSION KASHMIR Columbia (P)
LAGAAN Columbia (P)
KAHO NA PYAR HAI DEI (P)
AN EVENING IN PARIS DEI (P)
SAATHI DEI (P)
DEEWAR DEI (P)


Category B

SANGAM (Shemaroo) Shemaroo (I-5; all 30 individual video frames; Interlaced)
DEEWANA MASTAANA VS (I-3; 5th frame repeated; pseudo-progressive)


Category C

KATI PATANG EVP (P)
ABHIMAAN EVP (P)


Category D

AMAR PREM EVP (P)


Category E

DHARAMVEER EVP (P)
SAAWAN KI GHATA EVP (P)
KASHMIR KI KALI EVP (I-4; 6th frame repeated indicates 4% speed shift and 25 to 30 conversion; pseudo-progressive)


Category F

JUDWAA (single layer) VS (P)


Category G

MERA GAAON MERA DESH EVP (P)


Category H

JOSH EROS (P)
DHADKAN EROS (P)


Category J

YES BOSS VS (I-3; 5th frame repeated; pseudo-progressive)


Category K

AJNABEE (Rajesh Khanna) EVP (I-4; 6th frame repeated indicates 4% speed shift and 25 to 30 conversion; pseudo-progressive)
PREM KAHANI EVP (I-4; 6th frame repeated indicates 4% speed shift and 25 to 30 conversion; pseudo-progressive)


Category L

HASEENA MAAN JAAYEGI EROS (I-3; 5th frame repeated; pseudo-progressive)


Category M

PYAR HI PYAR EVP (I-3; 5th frame repeated; pseudo-progressive)


Category N

SANGAM (YRF) YRF (I-??)




COMPARATIVE RATINGS FOR 18 INCH PC MONITOR(PROGRESSIVE SYSTEM):


Category A

MISSION KASHMIR Columbia (P)
LAGAAN Columbia (P)
KAHO NA PYAR HAI DEI (P)
AN EVENING IN PARIS DEI (P)
SAATHI DEI (P)
DEEWAR DEI (P)


Category B

JOSH EROS (P)
ABHIMAAN EVP (P)
DHARAMVEER EVP (P)
SAAWAN KI GHATA EVP (P)





Category C

KATI PATANG EVP (P)
AMAR PREM EVP (P)
JUDWAA (single layer) VS (P)

Category D

DHADKAN (P)
MERA GAAON MERA DESH (P)

Category E

KASHMIR KI KALI EVP (I-4; 6th frame repeated indicates 4% speed shift and 25 to 30 conversion; pseudo-progressive)
PREM KAHANI EVP (I-4; 6th frame repeated indicates 4% speed shift and 25 to 30 conversion; pseudo-progressive)
DEEWANA MASTAANA VS (I-3; 5th frame repeated; pseudo-progressive)


Category F

YES BOSS VS (I-3; 5th frame repeated; pseudo-progressive)


Category G

HASEENA MAAN JAAYEGI EROS (I-3; 5th frame repeated; pseudo-progressive)
PYAR HI PYAR EVP (I-3; 5th frame repeated; pseudo-progressive)
AJNABEE (Rajesh Khanna) EVP (I-4; 6th frame repeated indicates 4% speed shift and 25 to 30 conversion; pseudo-progressive)


Category H

SANGAM (Shemaroo) Shemaroo (I-5; all 30 individual video frames; Interlaced)



Rana



Edited By rana on 1038599871
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2002 3:55 pm 
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Posts: 14989
Well, great work, rana!!
but, i am still waiting, answer to that sp color setting, that will enhance judwaa dvd on my pc/powerdvd?
I have great! prob, accepting it in category C on pc!! :baaa: ???
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sknath
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2002 4:20 pm 
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Posts: 2853
Location: Canada
arsh wrote:
Well, great work, rana!!
but, i am still waiting, answer to that sp color setting, that will enhance judwaa dvd on my pc/powerdvd?
I have great! prob, accepting it in category C on pc!! :baaa: ???

Arsh , change ur settings to VIVID.. and then fiddle around with the contrast (especially) and you will see a marked improvement.. which is why Mera Gaon mera Desh has been placed at a lower position ( as it does not in any way improve the color even if we change the settings :( )
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ganti
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2002 4:59 pm 
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Location: columbus
Good work Rana. Keep it up. I may be able to participate in the discussion probably from Monday.
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rana
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2002 5:48 pm 
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rana wrote:
Also, it is to note that many DVDs identified as ‘I-3’ and ‘I-4’ may make it to the top DVDs for progressive system if a de-interlacer is able to weave the frames together by pixel to pixel comparison.

Hi Ganti, Arsh,

I wonder if you could check the effect of de-interlacing I-3, I-4 recognized DVDs using your pixel by pixel detecting de-interlacer. I am sure you will be able to confirm for us that I-3, I-4 DVDs do benefit from an advanced de-interlacer. I am sure of I-3, but not of I-4 DVDs, that they will jump a few categories in my ratings, once we are able to weave those frames back together again.

Rana

P.S.
1) Does Faroudja DVD player re-interleave the video fields (and discard the un-necc. ones) in Digital domain??

2) I am sure of I-3 to be recognized by your de-interlacer as it certainly detects 2-3 pull down. For I-4 DVDs 2-3 pull down doesn't exist. Some other detecting clue is required.
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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 7:07 pm 
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I guess, original release of Yes Boss was progressive. Has anyone got that DVD disc for comparison??

Rana
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 9:07 pm 
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I dont know, which one, I have! but will be willing to check out for u!
btw! if i interpret ur post, right! do u want us to compare dvds in category 1 with dvds in category 3 and 4? :baaa: ???
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 9:34 pm 
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Well!! rana ji! apun ka YES BOSS tou COMBING kare cho! :laugh:
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rana
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2002 1:55 pm 
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I picked YES BOSS DVD for comparison as I came to know that the original batch of this DVD (and others) release was progressive and the subsequent ones, as we know, are not (although they used the same master, it was done by a different outfit). If we find this DVD then it gives us a chance to see the improvement in PQ using Faroudga pixel by pixel detected interleaving from YES BOSS interlaced DVD vs. Force weave interleaving of a progressive DVD. I am hopeful of finding this original batch progressive DVD. If not this one, there may be other DVDs which are progressive but their songs DVDs are interlaced. But, in that case, I don’t know if they used the same master for movie DVD and for songs DVD.

Other DVDs that fit in the category, where the original batch was progressive and the subsequent ones interlaced, are the EVP DVDs which become/ became interlaced when they add/ added subtitles.

Rana
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