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Mr_Khiladi
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:48 pm 
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MalFUnXiON wrote:
theon wrote:
organised religion provides a spiritual community where people can find love and acceptance and are inspired to do great things.

That's obviously the purpose of religion, but do you honestly feel that is being fulfilled in today's world?

Yes it depend on the people you associate with and your own outlook. Maybe in some communities this may not be the case, but certainly not all! You are what you make yourself to be and if you associate with fanatics all the time, you become one of them.
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2002 4:28 pm 
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theon wrote:
i know that religion has done more for humanity than any one who "believes in humanity." Just what is this humanity religion you speak of?

No offense but you know what, I don't think you will ever understand. I guess if one has to explain what humanity is, then there really is no point.
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theon
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2002 9:16 pm 
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sanjay, i know what humanity is. i just want to understand what else this "humanity" view believes in. what do you believe about the origin of humanity, what we're here for, where we're going, and the basis of morality? doing good to humanity is a great moral, but why is this moral appropriate (as opposed to being selfish, for instance)? these are questions that religion answers.
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Minesh
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 3:17 pm 
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Sanjay wrote:
You guys miss the whole point. No one is denying that the original intent of all relegion is good. But the fact is that is not what is happening but rather the opposite, be it because of 'human beings. Therefore if the very purpose of religion is being defeated then would we not be just better off without it. I would like to know of just 'ONE' good that religion has actually done for mankind.

Sorry Sanjay but you are viewing this world through the glasses of ignorance.

If you have an apple tree with a few rotten apples on it, what is the best solution?

a. Chop down the whole tree and get rid of permanently

Or

b. You pick and throw away the few rotten apples, and then enjoy the fruits of the tree.
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:33 pm 
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Minesh wrote:
Sorry Sanjay but you are viewing this world through the glasses of ignorance.

If you have an apple tree with a few rotten apples on it, what is the best solution?

a. Chop down the whole tree and get rid of permanently

Or

b. You pick and throw away the few rotten apples, and then enjoy the fruits of the tree.

I am sorry to say, but it is you who are being ignorant when you think it is only a few rotten apples that is the problem. I would have preffered to keep this thread non personal, but since you have made it personal, let me say that it is your vision that is clouded (like the vast majority of people) which keeps you from seeing that it is actually the tree that is rotten. If it were only a few rotten apples, I'd like you to explain the millions that have died in the name of religion throughout history. Go ahead and check out the history books and you will see that more wars have been fought in the name of religion than any other single cause. Forget history and look around the world today and you will see that most unrest around the world is due to religion.
Coming back to your analogy, what 'fruits' are you referring to when you say "throw away the rotten apples and enjoy the fruits of the tree"? What is it that relegion offers that one cannot get without it? Why do you need to have someone tell you how to pray, when to pray, where to pray? Do you feel that somehow your prayers are better heard if they are through some pandit/priest/moulvi? Or is it that you feel that your prayers are of no use without the various rituals that religion brings into the process of your communication with supreme being?
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AmericanBiwi
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:54 pm 
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I think the trouble begins when religion is grafted onto disputes that are essentially political in nature. None of these people are actually fighting over religious dogma. They're fighting over land, resources or power. And they just use religion as a convenient way to choose or label the enemy. If there were no religions they'd just find something else to hate about others.

But that's just my opinion.
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Mr_Khiladi
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 6:16 pm 
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Sanjay, I understand what you're getting at, however I think you have a very narrow view of religion. When you talk of millions died in the name of religion througout history, are you refering to every religion being responsible for this? For example the most peace loving and non-violent of all religions is Jainism, now tell me where in history they have killed in the name of religion? The point I am making is that when you talk of 'religions' you are referring to all religions.

Again, I disagree that all the problems are due to religions, but due to organisations and Individuals thinking "my religion is better than yours, so either convert or die", "you're religion is false, ours is true, cos God said so" or "look at what they've done to us in the past, let's take revenge". Alot of these problems comes down to ignorance, lack of respect, conversion and a desire for vengance. Well I know at least in Hindu religion these things are not a part of, but it's when certain individuals think in a certain way and find other likeminded individuals that groups like hinduunity.com are created.

Sanjay: "Do you feel that somehow your prayers are better heard if they are through some pandit/priest/moulvi? Or is it that you feel that your prayers are of no use without the various rituals that religion brings into the process of your communication with supreme being?"

Dude, it's eaxactly that I'm talking about that makes me think you have a very narrow view of religion. Why do you think we have religious reformers? It is to intepret religion for a new generation. For example Swami Vivekananda (a well known hindu monk) said that not everyone needs these thing, it's optional for those who wish to and are at that spiritual level. Now I'm sure most Hindu's don't believe they need a pandit to hear their prayers and from experience it is their choice wether they want to do rituals or not, but it is not compulsory. I certainly don't think they're needed, but it's not for me to tell others what to do, or else you become just like a 'fanatic' yourself.
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 12:19 pm 
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PagalChand wrote:
I think the trouble begins when religion is grafted onto disputes that are essentially political in nature. None of these people are actually fighting over religious dogma. They're fighting over land, resources or power. And they just use religion as a convenient way to choose or label the enemy. If there were no religions they'd just find something else to hate about others.

But that's just my opinion.

Very well said, for the most part that is. Although, since religion is such an emotional issue for most people, it becomes a much easier target to be used. I am in no way suggesting that any religion suggests violence but the fact is that it is a much easier tool than anything else for the perpetuators of such violence to use. Just like guns have a positive and good use, but they generally do more harm than good. It is for this reason that most societies in the world don't allow possession of guns. Just like guns don't do the shooting, religion is not what advocates violence.
Also it is incorrect to say that all these disputes are over land or political issues, since a lot of them are about nothing else but religious differences.



Edited By Sanjay on 1033578312
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 12:36 pm 
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Mr_Khiladi wrote:
Again, I disagree that all the problems are due to religions, but due to organisations and Individuals thinking "my religion is better than yours, so either convert or die", "you're religion is false, ours is true, cos God said so" or "look at what they've done to us in the past, let's take revenge". Alot of these problems comes down to ignorance, lack of respect, conversion and a desire for vengance.

Hmmm but is this not what I have been trying to say from the begining. What I stated to begin with was that "ORGANIZED" religion is the problem, not religion itself. It is these organizations that I have a problem with, not someone having a particular set of beliefs and or rituals.
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Minesh
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 12:37 pm 
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Sanjay I apologise if you found my comments insulting, they were not meant be.

Mr_Khiladi and PagalChand you make some good points.

Again I must say people who kill for the sake of religion are only killing because they have lost there way in this world and wants to do these sort of things to seek revenge and a thirst for power.

It is politics that have killed the millions not religion.
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 5:10 pm 
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Minesh no problem yaar and I hope there is nothing I have said in here to offend you or anyone else here. In case I have I apologize for that since that was most certainly not my objective.
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Master_J
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 6:57 pm 
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yo i checked this site out....i was eating at that time....scared the hell out of me with those dead bodies....it has pretty racist comments made in there....you can say this site is promoting violence and i think this is not what hindu religion teaches....i believe any religion who preaches violence is a false religion PERIOD.....this ppl are blaming every other religion just for that murder....it was a terrible thing that happened in the temple...i dont know if these guys are actually serious about this site or just put it up there to make people mad and see how many people out there will be intersted in joining them :).....
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Aarkayne
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 7:42 pm 
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Sanjay wrote:
Coming back to your analogy, what 'fruits' are you referring to when you say "throw away the rotten apples and enjoy the fruits of the tree"? What is it that relegion offers that one cannot get without it? Why do you need to have someone tell you how to pray, when to pray, where to pray? Do you feel that somehow your prayers are better heard if they are through some pandit/priest/moulvi? Or is it that you feel that your prayers are of no use without the various rituals that religion brings into the process of your communication with supreme being?

Well articulated and a damn good point at that!
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Mr_Khiladi
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2002 1:01 am 
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Master_J :"i believe any religion who preaches violence is a false religion PERIOD"
You're damn right there!

"this ppl are blaming every other religion just for that murder"
Nope, from what I've seen they only blamed Muslims.

There mainly against muslims and the odd Christian here and there. And they are against any Hindu who doesn't think like them. They were against Hare Krishna and have a special section dissing them and they've even started to criticise the Swaminarayan Hindus (of whose temple was attacked) mainly because their head swami told everyone to refrain from revenge attacks.

But I will say this, the reason they exist and are growing is because there is a 'market' for this.
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Master_J
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2002 12:17 pm 
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i think these people who is running the site is from USA or maybe some parts of WESTERN world....well let them write whatever they want....they are not doing any harm to anyone...they are only letting their feelings out....only ignorant people will go there and listen to them....we all are i believe well educated and have some common sense...rem. that saying "bricks and stone may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" ...go with that feeling man :) dont let these people come between you and your beliefs....
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