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RNJBOND
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:24 am 
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Just thought I'd let you guys know. I figured after what happened in Gujarat, I'd get a bit of perspective from their messageboards. However, one of the topics was something like "They destroyed us, how many of their mosques will we destroy" to which I responded that killing innocent Muslims would accomplish nothing. Oh boy, I raised a lot of complaints, and my posts were delted. No matter how pro-Hindu I was, the fact that I protested senseless violence against Muslims was too unextreme for them. These people want to commit mass genocide. Hence, the community (and the mods) are all nazis.

BTW, I find it interesting how these people go against real Hindu beliefs, such as the fact that all other religions are different perceptions on the same God, and acting as if it's their duty to kill Muslims.



Edited By RNJBOND on 1032931781
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:59 am 
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Unfortunately I not only have met but know such people. No matter how much I try to convince them or try to make them see logic, they continue to be blinded with a hate for other religions. Personally I think all Formal/Institutionalized religion is what is destroying the very fabric of human kind. It is ironical that the very thiong, religion, which is supposed to make a human being more human is what makes them barbaric and animal like. If you ask me what the height of hypocracy is, my answer would be relegion.

It is only when the world and such people as the 'hinduunity.org' realize that "Religion is only a means to an end, and not 'the' end in itself" that we will be able to live in a world where one does not have to live in fear of being killed by morons such as the individuals that belong to the hinduunity.org



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RNJBOND
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:18 am 
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Well, Sanjay, we both know that these guys from Hinduunity.org won't do jack. All they can do is give tough talks like "Let's kill all Muslim pigs" but they can't do anything, mainly because they're way too scared.

What surprised me, however, is how they're willing to turn on their own people, and only keep on those who are extreme to the point of being facist nazis. Just to experiment, I kept posting. Apparently, no matter how Pro-Hindu you are, it doesn't matter if you try saying something logical like "let's not commit mass genocide". A strange group indeed. Nothing to fear from them.

However, your point that religion is what causes war and tesnion, well, I disagree with that. It's a simple fact that people use religion as an excuse. No religion (that I know of) condones violence in such a manner. When people see Hindu-Muslim riots, I don't see the former group fighting in the name of God; rather, they're fighting for "revenge" (which will ultimately accomplish nothing).
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Minesh
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:30 pm 
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RNJBOND wrote:
However, your point that religion is what causes war and tesnion, well, I disagree with that. It's a simple fact that people use religion as an excuse. No religion (that I know of) condones violence in such a manner. When people see Hindu-Muslim riots, I don't see the former group fighting in the name of God; rather, they're fighting for "revenge" (which will ultimately accomplish nothing).

You beat me to it Rnjbond.

These people have nothing to do with Hinduism.

Unfortunately there are groups that have become very militant, and this applies to Hindu's Muslims, Jews, and Christians etc etc. All these people have nothing to do with the real message of there own religion.
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Mr_Khiladi
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 8:23 pm 
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Yep. But they're NOT Nazi's. The Nazi's were German and were finished off in the war. About the hinduunity website...I knew they'd be angry with the temple massacre....who wouldn't? (actually we know who wouldn't!)...but these guys just want revenge and nothing will stop them. They are basially a Hindu answer to Muslim fanatic groups (of which we know there are much more of) and yes they do go against their religion in respects to peace and to choose non-violence before violence. I noticed they ban any Hindu who does not agree with them. They also go against sects who don't agree with their philosophy (e.g. recently they had a slagging match with hare krishna's) after which they declared Hare Krishna's can't be Hindu because they don't agree with them. In a way it looked like a mirror image of Muslims rejecting Ahmedhi's.

Their way of looking at things is something like Krishna said in the gita to fight destroy unrightousness...and they say the muslims are the unrighteous ones.

However, I do think there are some serious questions in both religions that MUST be confronted ASAP. And I find that the media and p-secs as well as some religionalists on both sides deliberately avoid these questions and feed us with all this love and peace crap that they themselves don't subscribe to but want every one else to live by. It would be nice if people could live by that, but people get offended too easily.
I looked at their section on about Hinduism and what it is...they didn't seem to recognise the vast spiritual knowledge of hinduism and rather looked at it they way they wanted it to be.

If you want to know of true Hindus check out
http://www.hindunet.org/ there's a forum on there.
Also a good website I came across is
http://www.atributetohinduism.com


btw Sanjay said: Personally I think all Formal/Institutionalized religion is what is destroying the very fabric of human kind. It is ironical that the very thiong, religion, which is supposed to make a human being more human is what makes them barbaric and animal like. If you ask me what the height of hypocracy is, my answer would be relegion.

I disagree. It's cos certain people preach 'their version' of religion and they preach to people who think like them, so followers grow after a while. It's also because most people in this world have neglected the very essence of religion - spirituality.
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:32 pm 
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I still believe that formal/institutionalized religion is what is the main problem that the world faces in the 21st century. As a matter of fact it has been the problem throughout most of recorded history. Whatever may be the original objective of religion, the fact is more wars have been fought, and more humans have died due to relegion than any other one reson in recorded history.

As for spirituality and god, why does one need religion for that? The fact is most people treat relegion as the 'end' rather than what it really is, "just a means to the end". Do I really need to call myself Hindu, Muslim, Christian or whatever to pray to god or to be a good human being? I think not. As a matter of fact do we need to spend the huge amounts of money on temples, mosques and churches when there are millions starving in the world? I think not. The fact is that the largest industry in the world today is 'relegion' and all that money goes into the hands of a select few, who use it to just further their own cause and to increase their own power. When and if that power is challenged or threatened then they just advocate senseless violence and killing of innocents, "all in the name of god (read that as 'religion'). I knwo I am in a minority when I say that this world would most certainly be a better and safer place if there were no formal/institutionalized relgion.

PS: Just in case someone is wondering, I am not an aetheist and I very much believe in god and I am Hindu by birth (aren't all we Hindu's). But I also believe that I don't need any pundits (priests) and/or temples for me to reach out to god.
There is no relegion greater than 'humanity' itself.



Edited By Sanjay on 1032989677
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:52 pm 
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RNJBOND wrote:
Well, Sanjay, we both know that these guys from Hinduunity.org won't do jack. All they can do is give tough talks like "Let's kill all Muslim pigs" but they can't do anything, mainly because they're way too scared.

Well you are right, because only cowards make such statements and/or attack innocent men, women and children.
But the fact is, such people are as much a problem as those that actually go out and carry out senseless killings. Every man/woman that even carries such views is a problem in the long run because it is upon their support that the likes of the 'Bajrang Dal, 'Shiv Sena', 'Vishwa Hindu Parishad' are able to carry on with their hate mongering. The worst part is that the numbers of such people is increasing at a very alarming rate even amongst the historically pascifist Hindus. Here in India I have seen their numbers multiply immensely over the last decade or so (it all seems to have started around and with the Rath Yatra taken out by L. K. Advani in the early 1990's). I have seen my own friends and relatives that have acquired militant views towards a particular religion all because one particular political party used (and I might say quite effectively to their advantage) the sentiments of such fools to propogate and rally to attack a large minority in India.

PS: I am reserving my comments to only the rise of fanatiscm amongst Hindus simply because the topic of this thread is linked to them. It is not that I feel that people of other relegions or their leaders are not as much a part of the problem.
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Mr_Khiladi
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2002 12:03 am 
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Sanjay: "The worst part is that the numbers of such people is increasing at a very alarming rate even amongst the historically pascifist Hindus."

Yes, well that's exactly what I'm getting at...have you ever wondered why? Religion is not the problem, it's what people can turn religion into. The reason why numbers are growing is because people are not getting answers and p-sec media doesn't want to confront the real issues. I'm sure most people with a brain know what the problems are, but when have you ever seen them confronted...how about NEVER! And gropus like this will continue to grow as people get more dissatisfied. Believe me, the media stirs up too much trouble. All these 'religious' leaders need to sit down and have a long talk.

You may feel like we don't need temples and priest but most people do, and you won't be able to convince them otherwise. Also remember that religion is an important part of most people's identity. Alot of people would prefer to believe what countless holy men teach through the ages rather than what an everyday man has to say. People have strong beliefs on life, our purpose and where we go when we die, for them just being a good person isn't enough.

btw, I'm Hindu by birth and by choice! and we're not all Hindu's here (I mean on Zulm).
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2002 3:29 am 
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Mr_Khiladi wrote:
btw, I'm Hindu by birth and by choice! and we're not all Hindu's here (I mean on Zulm).

Ofcourse I know that we have people from other religions on this forum. What I mean't by "are'nt we all Hindus" is that hindus are all 'born' hindus unlike a lot of other relegions where one has to be baptized or has to choose to be of that relegion.
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MalFUnXiON
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2002 5:43 am 
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Sanjay wrote:
Whatever may be the original objective of religion, the fact is more wars have been fought, and more humans have died due to relegion than any other one reson in recorded history.

As for spirituality and god, why does one need religion for that?
Do I really need to call myself Hindu, Muslim, Christian or whatever to pray to god or to be a good human being?

As a matter of fact do we need to spend the huge amounts of money on temples, mosques and churches when there are millions starving in the world?
I knwo I am in a minority when I say that this world would most certainly be a better and safer place if there were no formal/institutionalized relgion.

PS: Just in case someone is wondering, I am not an aetheist and I very much believe in god and I am Hindu by birth (aren't all we Hindu's). But I also believe that I don't need any pundits (priests) and/or temples for me to reach out to god.
There is no relegion greater than 'humanity' itself.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's like I'm reading my own thoughts word for word.
I've been preaching the idea of humanity over any religion for years. I'm also not an atheist, as I do believe in God but to me it seems like religion causes a lot more harm than good.
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Minesh
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:42 pm 
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MalFUnXiON wrote:
but to me it seems like religion causes a lot more harm than good.

Sorry I disagree.

It is not the religion but humans with the greed of power and wealth that has stained the real religions.
The messages in all religions are for the good of this planet, unfortunately you will get a group that will misinterpret the messages for there own selfish reasons. So it’s these groups, which are causing harm.
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:50 pm 
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You guys miss the whole point. No one is denying that the original intent of all relegion is good. But the fact is that is not what is happening but rather the opposite, be it because of 'human beings. Therefore if the very purpose of religion is being defeated then would we not be just better off without it. I would like to know of just 'ONE' good that religion has actually done for mankind.
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theon
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:34 pm 
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i must disagree with all this talk about being spiritual without being part of a specific religion. you can't just go around picking those parts of a religion that you like and do away with the rest. when you start to pick and chose ideas yourself, you begin to find that you have big holes in your worldview and even contradictary beliefs. santayana said "to attempt to be religious without practicing a specific religion is as possible as attempting to speak without a specific language." while i don't think the analogy is perfect, it seems to hold much truth.

organised religion provides a spiritual community where people can find love and acceptance and are inspired to do great things. and as for this talk about asking for ONE good that religion has done for mankind, i think you must be closing your mind if you don't see all of the hospitals, missions, and programs that people affiliated with a formal religion have done. i know that religion has done more for humanity than any one who "believes in humanity." Just what is this humanity religion you speak of?
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MalFUnXiON
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2002 3:19 am 
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theon wrote:
organised religion provides a spiritual community where people can find love and acceptance and are inspired to do great things.

That's obviously the purpose of religion, but do you honestly feel that is being fulfilled in today's world?
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faddy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2002 8:31 am 
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Location: Sunny Manchester..............
i dont know what the crack is with this thread.. but i thought id just say hi!!
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