It is currently Fri Sep 26, 2025 1:59 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 196 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 14  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 6:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
Arsh, Try


Hopefully, this will let you bypass subscriber requirement for the whole site. Save this address. I will delete it once you have saved it.

Rana




Edited By rana on 1031949977


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
nope yaar!! asking for password, ID, lol! just Copy and send it, rana! :baaa:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 3:45 pm
Posts: 515
Location: columbus
Rana,
Please Copy and send it to me also


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 3:45 pm
Posts: 515
Location: columbus
Rana
Quote:
I am compiling a list of my Indian DVDs (over 200) in EXCEL sheet with comments. 85% of my DVDs are Film mode. Of the remainder, I am trying to detect (very slow process) which ones are Pseudo-progressive. A data base of 200 plus contributions from sk, Ganti & yourself, we might have a huge list of DVDs where Film mode is identified.
I hope, zulmis find it useful.


We are really grateful to this spread sheet with your comments. I am sure it will be useful to our Zulmi's.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
Great work! rana!! Extremely thoughtful of you, indeed!! We are GRATEFUL, indeed! :cool:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 5:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
rana wrote:
Corrected on Sept 10, 2002:


Finally I did succeed in comleting my comments about EVP Progressive/ Interlaced DVDs.

PROGRESSIVE (FILM MODE DVDs):
(These are EVP DVDs by SAI DIGITAL; orig. release; had no subtitles):

1) ABHIMAAN
2) AMAR PREM (My copy has no subtitles and is progressive. sknath said, in one of his posts, that his copy has subtitles and turns up interlaced)
3) ARADHANA (DragunR2 said, and I believe it, that his copy is progressive. My copy is not a genuine EVP and is interlaced)
4) DHARAMVEER
5) KATI PATANG (DVD author unknown)
6) MERA GAON MERA DESH
8) SAAWAN KI GHATA
9) AN EVENING IN PARIS (note that DEI version exists)
10) EVP/ RPG SONGS DVD (contains all songs from 4 EVP-SAI DIGITAL films MGMD,Evening in Paris, Jai Santoshi Maa, Amar Prem)
11) (JAI SANTOSHI MAA never released)

EVP DVDs that aren’t indicated as FILM MODE using FORCE WEAVE OR GREEN LIGHT indicator:
(These EVP DVDs are not by SAI DIGITAL except for Prem Kahani and may be AJNABEE)
7) PREM KAHANI (SAI; Interlaced)
12) AJNABEE (cover doesn’t claim SAI, DVD opening shows it as SAI)
13) AMANUSH (24 to 30)
14) BARSAAT KI EK RAAT
15) KASHMIR KI KALI (Interlaced but excellent print, at par with Deewana Mastana; better than Saawan Ki Ghata)
16) PYAR HI PYAR
17) RAMPUR KA LUKSHMAN (doesn’t play on 99% of DVD players)


Other EVP Hindi DVDs that I haven’t seen:
18) Song DVD which has songs from Dharamveer and other films.
--- I am sure there are more DVDs that I don’t remember the names. In one of the threads in the old forums, we had compiled a list.

#19 #20 and # 21 added here:
19) Saahib Bibi Aur Ghulaam (DEI version also exists)
20) Raja Jaani (DEI version also exists)
21) Anurodh ??
22) PATTHAR KE SANAM; Portions (45%) are OK Progressive, Rest is incorrectly flagged Progressive.



Note that 24 to 30 frames per second requires every 5th frame to be repeated. In EVP DVDs (original release) that we are assuming as interlaced, EVERY 6th frame is repeated(except Amanush) . This implies 25 to 30 frames conversion, and not 24 to 30. Also, in some DVDs there is not even an iota of a flicker when the frame repeats.
One thing I am sure about is that these (interlaced) DVDs are CERTAINLY speed shifted by 4%.
(EXCEPTION: AMAANUSH is not 25 changed to 30. It is 24 changed to 30 as normal for Film to NTSC)

I am reluctant to call them converted from PAL to NTSC as there exists another possibility that these DVDs were filmed by DIGITAL CAMERA set at 25 frames per sec. I confirmed from one of my computer expert colleagues that DIGITAL CAMERA video @ 25 or 30 frames per sec (or any other setting) doesn’t involve PAL or NTSC standard.
Therefore, I am wishfully thinking that these assumed interlaced EVP DVDs are all digital. It is just that our frame re-interleavers are not programmed to handle this un-expected case. In future, may be?

Rana

As sknath reported, he found EVP’s Prem Kahani to be interlaced, where as I had listed it as Progressive, I had another look all the EVP Hindi DVDs that I had, or could get hold of, and found that Prem Kahani DVD indeed is interlaced.

While checking, I also discovered more variations to the indicators (rules) for identifying (e.g. SAI for progressive) which EVP Hindi DVD is Progressive or not. There seem to be as many exceptions as the # of EVP Hindi DVDs. Therefore it is best to see individual DVD indicators.

PREM KAHANI had no subtitles, is by SAI and yet it is interlaced.
AMAANUSH is not by SAI, has no subtitles, is interlaced, and has 24 to 30 conversion as normal for NTSC, unlike EVP’s other interlaced DVDs that have 25 to 30 conversion.

Rana




Edited By rana on 1066242343


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 6:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
ganti wrote:

Regardind Progressive DVD players, here is an excerpt from the link in the first post of this thread:


It should be noted in advance, that probably 90%, maybe 95%, of major Hollywood releases are going to play back basically fine on all of these players. If you’re happy with those kinds of numbers, just get the player with the best video quality, or the features that are most important to you. But if you want the other 5-10% of your DVDs to also look good, or if you have a reasonable number of the smaller-name DVDs, which are more likely to have mastering problems, you’ll want to pay close attention to our deinterlacing performance tests.






Too bad, the 90% and 5-10% numbers are reversed when it comes to Indian DVDs.

Only 5-10% Indian DVDs play fine on any simple Progressive DVD player. Of the rest 95%, about 20% of them could benefit from the advanced Progressive DVD players. For the rest, there is no hope.

Rana




Edited By rana on 1031769199


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
Thnx, for ur CONTINUED INPUT, Rana ji!!

Some dvds, even INTERLACED, r still, very GOOD buy, PQ, only make sure, that U have a GOOD deinterlacer in ur OROG scan Player! as u said!
One examp..is DEEWANA MASTANA as Discussed before, comparative to JUDWAA..LOUSY PROG!
Make sure, u Dont c, COMBING, so player should be INDIAN DVD fool, proof! and try to COUNTERACT, INDIAN DVD MAKERS>>stupid TACTICS of DVD authoring..

Well, now if PREM KAHANI is INTERLACED, how GOOD is PQ??
What is AR?
of PREM KAHANI, KATI PATANG and ABHIMAAN!

How does PQ compare to DHARAM VEER by EVP, i.e 4:3 AR but Prog transfer..preety darn GOOD!

Cinabella's 16th DECEMBER even being interlaced was CANDY to the EYE, while AGNI VARSHA, still GOOD is a few NOTCHES lower TRANSFER! IMHO.

As Sunny Audit said, what the heck, Prog or interlaced, it should look GOOD?? :baaa:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 8:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 4:17 pm
Posts: 2853
Location: Canada
arsh wrote:
As Sunny Audit said, what the heck, Prog or interlaced, it should look GOOD?? :baaa:

Which is what surprises me... as its like equating
a P4 machine with a P2 machine, even though an OS say Linux will run beautifully on both machines :).... but definately a P4 machine will win always when compared with a P2 machine !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 1:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
arsh wrote:
As Sunny Audit said, what the heck, Prog or interlaced, it should look GOOD?? :baaa:

FOR INTERLACED DISPLAYS:

Progressive or interlaced, both should and will look equally good, if done properly, on interlaced displays. If done properly; there is a Big IF. Interlaced DVD for a Film, which is progressive by definition, alredy indicates that the DVD was not authored properly.


FOR PROGRESSIVE DISPLAYS:

There is an extra increase in PQ for Progressive DVDs when played and displayed on Progressive sets.

An interlaced DVD will be converted from a 720 x 240 matrix (source) to 720 x 480 for it to display progressively. This 720 x 480 matrix can then be converted again for higher res screens like 1600 x 1200 or 1280 x 1024 etc.

A progressive DVD has a 720 x 480 source. This 720 x 480 matrix can be converted for higher res screens like 1600 x 1200 or 1280 x 1024 etc.

Definitely there will be a difference in PQ, when a 720 x 240 or when a 720 x 480 source is used.

Rana


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 3:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 3:45 pm
Posts: 515
Location: columbus
Thanks Rana and Sknath for the continus support of the cause.

For all of those who support this interlaced thing:

If you guys happen to watch an average Hollywood disk on an average Projector based setup you know what I am talking and what I am trying to explain. Our Indian disks are not in the same class as their Hollywood counterparts barring some DEI disks.

Ronald Epson (Owner and reviewer of HTF) could not find difference between a Superbit and an ordinary dvd. And the great Bjoern Roy subsequently criticized that. Bjoern is a recognized videophile on many forms like AVS. And Bjoern went to the length of asking him not to review Superbit's any more.
Check his guide on Edge enhancements.
http://home.t-online.de/home/bjoern.roy ... age_01.htm
Does this mean Superbit version quality is no different than a regular version?

Now come to our scenario. We are not asking for the Superbits here. We are just asking them to produce quality products. After all DVDs are meant to be progressive as movies. Force them to provide what we deserve. We are paying money for the DVD and we deserve the DVD quality.

Otherwise I would happily watch a Hollywood movie VHS tape with a S-video equipped Video player with out much regrets.

Please mark my word. If we support this interlaced thing any longer we are fooling ou selves. Are we being ignorant or we being careless?

Sunny please don't be too protective of Ayangran's interlaced technique. DVD movies are meant be Progressive.

Lastly Home Theater concept is gaining momentum as the Projector prices are getting down and a very good quality projector price is no more than the price of a HDTV. And will provide theater experience.




Edited By ganti on 1031844752


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 4:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
I agree on PROG stuff!! as we r getting into HDTV and also towards HD DVDS, so, continuing INTERLACED over PROG is REDUNDANT!
BUt hindi dvd AUTHORS! are SHAMELESS< MIMINDLESS SOULS! :baaa: :stupid: :angry: :bangbang: Just CHIKNE GHADE!!! :baaa:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 4:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 4:17 pm
Posts: 2853
Location: Canada
arsh wrote:
I agree on PROG stuff!! as we r getting into HDTV and also towards HD DVDS, so, continuing INTERLACED over PROG is REDUNDANT!
BUt hindi dvd AUTHORS! are SHAMELESS< MIMINDLESS SOULS! :baaa: :stupid: :angry: :bangbang: Just CHIKNE GHADE!!! :baaa:

Hmmm Ayngaran is not shameless... BUt being taken for a ride by Prasad Digital... PD has a good authoring system in place and all they need to do is change a few flags so that they can produce properly encoded progressive DVDs...and Ganti I concur with you whole heartedly.
Media Dimensions is also one of the culprits...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
Two excerpts from Super Digital SOORYAVANSHAM DVD review:

1) the transfer is in progressive/film mode

2) single layered disc, no chapter selection and no subtitles leaves this DVD lacking yet manages to look better than most recent DVD titles from the likes of Eros, Spark and Yash Raj Films. An oddity of a DVD indeed.



3 Hr Film on SIGLE LAYER and yet better than most recent DVD titles from the likes of Eros, Spark and Yash Raj Films. I credit this mainly to Progressive Transfer.

Rana




Edited By rana on 1031849670


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 5:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
But that does not hold true for VS/SD..JUDWAA, what went wrong there RANA ji!? Prog, yet ABISMAL..VERY BAD!imho :baaa: ???


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 196 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 14  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group