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rana
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2002 6:34 pm 
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Why the Differences??
Differences in different batches/ releases??

Ali stated in one of the posts, that replication of a disc let’s you make an EXACT- EXACT copy of the source DVD. Does it also let you make an intentional different copy? If yes, why would anyone intentionally make an inferior copy?

Obviously, it is easy to replicate exactly. But, how come the so-called professionals can’t do it. Why can’t they replicate their own product exactly?

What I am referring to is:
1) Why, in many of the Song DVDs, picture is different than in the movie DVD even if, both are done by the same DVD authors/ makers?

For example, VS’s JUDWAA and BMCM are 24 steps per sec implying film based, their songs in the VS-6 pack are 30 frames per sec implying video based.


2) Why, some batches of EVP DVDs (same title) are Film based and some are video based. Why would they replicate a DVD differently than the original release?


WHY AM I ASKING ALL THIS is for my WISHFUL THINKING that may be, the SHAMAROO titles (that we have been picking up here in Canada; even though they are interlaced, they are better than YRF which are interlaced as well) too, are improperly replicated here and the SHEMAROO DVDs in India are, perhaps, the proper 24 steps per sec (progressive) DVDs.

Rana



Edited By rana on 1029790449
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ali
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:32 pm 
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Quote:
Ali stated in one of the posts, that replication of a disc let’s you make an EXAC- EXACT copy of the source DVD. Does it also let you make an intentional different copy? If yes, why would anyone intentionally make an inferior copy?


No it doesn’t allow you to make an intentionally inferior copy. Replication is a manufacturing process not a authoring/encoding/ or a copying process.

Quote:
Obviously, it is easy to replicate exactly. But, how come the so-called professionals can’t do it. Why can’t they replicate their own product exactly?


Who can't do this? They do replicate discs properly, its the same DVD disc you and me buy in the shops! They replicate exactly what they make – a shoddy product in the first instance.

Quote:
What I am referring to is:
1) Why, in many of the Song DVDs, picture is different than in the movie DVD even if, both are done by the same DVD authors/ makers?


Because the video is unprofessionally re-processed to compile another DVD.

I’m thinking there is a confusion between what actually replication is as apposed to authoring, encoding or even copying. There is a difference between ‘copying a DVD’ and ‘replicating a DVD’. Copying can mean anything from copying a DVD to DVD/DVD-R/VHS/Divx/SVCD/VCD etc. Replication is a manufacturing process where one master disc is mass replicated to hundreds or thousands of DVD discs.

Quote:
WHY AM I ASKING ALL THIS is for my WISHFUL THINKING that may be, the SHAMAROO titles (that we have been picking up here in Canada; even though they are interlaced, they are better than YRF which are interlaced as well) too, are improperly replicated here and the SHEMAROO DVDs in India are the proper 24 steps per sec (progressive) DVDs.


Can you say for certain that the ones in India are film based progressive DVDs? Again replication has no effect of progressive/interlace/colour/sharpness etc.

Ali
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ganti
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:36 pm 
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Rana,
Good questions. I am afraid if any one knows the answer except Videosound, Eros and EVP. On the same note I found the video is squeezed vertically for some of the songs on these 6 pack.
I found it is manageable with my HPTC, but with RP56 it is way out of proportion. Did you observe this or it is only my DVD player doing this?



Edited By ganti on 1029785880
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ganti
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:40 pm 
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Ali@ Aug. 19 2002,15:32
Quote:
Can you say for certain that the ones in India are film based progressive DVDs?


Rana,

I think we haven't proved the theory of SHEMAROO DVDs are progressive. Are we?



Edited By ganti on 1029786077
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sknath
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:51 pm 
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Ganti... Nope we havent established the fact that Shemaroo DVDs in India are progressive :(

However If you noticed the VS 6 pack DVD set (esp Vol 3, song 4..from Judwaa) ..you will notice that we need 30 steps to advance to the next time interval. Now compare it with the Original Judwaa film DVd and you will see that we need only 24 steps to advance to the next frame. Now the question is... How come this discrepancy arises.. What may have happened ?. I can easily rip the song from the original DVD ( or alternately, if I have the original Master, I can just copy that portion of the file where the song is and paste it into a new selection).. In doing so, I presume, I am not changing any other parameter namely (frame rate steps etc.). So what sould have happened with the Judwaa songs ?...
Now by a similar analogy, I am assuming that the Shemaroo DVDs maybe progressively encoded in India, and the folks who are co^pying them here are screwing them up here ( just like the above exampole of Judwaa).. To clear up this confusion..Only SANJAY or someone in India can help us...

Please take a copy of an Original Shemaroo DVD and check for us this discrepancy ? I doubt this may be the case as Shemaroo have encoded one more DVD for SPARK (Buddha Mil Gaya) and the number of steps needed there was also 30
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ganti
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2002 8:01 pm 
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Quote:
How come this discrepancy arises.. What may have happened


Sknath,
Well, the same answer fits to the Inferior EROS/B4U disks from EROS/DEI authorized disks.
:ffs:
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rana
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2002 8:09 pm 
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Thanks to Ali for clarifying the differences between a replicating and copying. It seems that different versions are really copies and that is why the picture comes out different, or changes from progressive to interlaced or from anamorphic to proper letterboxed or to squeezed letterbox.

WHY CAN'T THEY, OR DON'T THEY, REPLICATE??

Obviously, they don't know the difference. For this reason alone, I have a slight ray of hope that the SHEMAROO DVDs in India may very well be progressive. Just a wishful thinking.

Rana
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sknath
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2002 8:43 pm 
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ganti wrote:
Quote:
How come this discrepancy arises.. What may have happened


Sknath,
Well, the same answer fits to the Inferior EROS/B4U disks from EROS/DEI authorized disks.
:ffs:

Ganti not quite true here... If you compare the B4U and the DEI versions of GUPT you will see a difference in Aspect ratio.. which indicates that the B4U dvds have been reauthored !...



Edited By sknath on 1029789835
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ganti
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2002 8:55 pm 
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Sknath,
Yes, I forget that.
:D
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MalFUnXiON
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:29 am 
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rana wrote:
Thanks to Ali for clarifying the differences between a replicating and copying. It seems that different versions are really copies and that is why the picture comes out different, or changes from progressive to interlaced or from anamorphic to proper letterboxed or to squeezed letterbox.

WHY CAN'T THEY, OR DON'T THEY, REPLICATE??

Obviously, they don't know the difference. For this reason alone, I have a slight ray of hope that the SHEMAROO DVDs in India may very well be progressive. Just a wishful thinking.

Rana

The song dvd's are probably reprocessed in some other ways, because usually the sound isn't true to the original either. But Indian manufacturers including VS and Eros do replicate, not copy. Each DVD of Aankhen or Company is the same. Each Eros song DVD is the same as their whole batch. They use 1 master and mass produce using that. The only difference could arise if the discs are faulty (like DCH) where each DVD gives you problems at different points in the movie. That's not an authoring or replicating fault, but rather the effect of using cheap media.
With EVP dvd's, my guess is that the discrepancies arise due to some unauthorized copying. I doubt it's EVP that would copy their discs, rather it's a third (pirate) company that's illegaly ripping these DVD's. EVP replicated when they initially produced the DVD and since they are out of business now, some other company is taking advantage by ripping their DVD's not replicating.
And it is possible that the original Shemaroo DVD's are indeed progressive, since the ones sold here are most likely copied by some other company. But you would have to get an original Shemaroo to be sure.



Edited By MalFUnXiON on 1029807076
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DragunR2
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:39 am 
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MalFUnXiON wrote:
EVP replicated when they initially produced the DVD and since they are out of business now, some other company is taking advantage by ripping their DVD's not replicating.

EVP is still around. Perhaps you are thinking of DEI?
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MalFUnXiON
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2002 7:39 am 
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DragunR2 wrote:
MalFUnXiON wrote:
EVP replicated when they initially produced the DVD and since they are out of business now, some other company is taking advantage by ripping their DVD's not replicating.

EVP is still around. Perhaps you are thinking of DEI?

Sorry about that, I was actually referring to the Hindi EVP titles that DEI bought the rights to. I don't think EVP can legally produce those anymore but correct me if I'm wrong.
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rana
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2002 12:47 pm 
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MalFUnXiON wrote:
rana wrote:
Thanks to Ali for clarifying the differences between a replicating and copying. It seems that different versions are really copies and that is why the picture comes out different, or changes from progressive to interlaced or from anamorphic to proper letterboxed or to squeezed letterbox.

WHY CAN'T THEY, OR DON'T THEY, REPLICATE??


Rana

Indian manufacturers including VS and Eros do replicate, not copy. Each DVD of Aankhen or Company is the same. Each Eros song DVD is the same as their whole batch. They use 1 master and mass produce using that.

I wonder
WHY EROS, VS, et.al. DON'T REPLICATE PORTIONS FROM THEIR OWN MOVIE DVDs FOR THEIR SONG DVDs??

Rana
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MalFUnXiON
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2002 4:13 pm 
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I'm guessing they only have the equipment to replicate whole discs. To copy portions such as songs, they probably go through some other process.
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ali
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:06 pm 
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To add to what MalFUnXiON said, replication is mostly always out sourced to third parties. Even Hollywood DVDs get mass replicated in the Far East, very few companies have the in house capacity to mass replicate digital media discs economically.

There’s a simpler answer to your question Rana - money! To 'replicate' songs (i.e. copy and retain the exact same quality) you need the expertise and equipment to this properly. Expertise for VS & Eros lies in the film distribution (taxi service for film prints to cinema rounds :oops: ) and marketing (basically lying :oo: ) – they have minimal to zero expertise on DVD – and they sure know how to prove that to everyone. Most if not all Eros and VS DVDs are outsourced – done by third parties – who ever will do it the cheapest. So either they get then professions todo the work (which costs money) or cheapo muppets. Give you one guess which they use.

Ali :baaa:
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