The transfer is very good. I didn't like the film as much as I liked Khaaka Khaaka..

PS: Anybody noticed Director Gautham Menon among the dancers in the Venilave.. song?

The film looks this good as we had full co-operation from the director. He spent time out from his current production and oversaw the transfer process. With our technical background we were able to ensure the film was presented from an uncompressed D6 source. Had we used a D5 source, the film would have had more compression problems then what is seen on the current DVD.

Indian films can only achieve similar quality if film producers and directors co-operate with the distributors. Recently, Ayngaran have been lucky to have directors focusing on home video (due to their keen interest in after-sales royalties), and ensure quality is key to the product.

Ayngaran have recently released Godfather and Vallavan (both rubbish films) from camera negatives that underwent a 4K transfer, via the sprit datacine. The transfers are all supervised by the film director (or cinematographer), and the datacine operator has perfect 20/20 vision to avoid any colour problems, as seen on all Hindi DVD titles made from DI source, including the recent Don and Rang De Basanti DVDs.

The quality is so now good that we can to see flaws made during production, such as; out-of-focus shots, fingerprint on lenses, incorrect exposures settings, negative markings, poor blue screen keying, negative roll ons etc…

I have been informed that Vettaiyadu Vilaiyadu has been released on HD-DVD for the Dubai region only. It was made from the same D6 master, on a single layer (15GB). Hopefully, it would have removed all the compression problems the DVD-9 version had due to lack of space. I should get my copy soon and report back to this forum.

Ayngaran next titles done on 4k sprit datacine are; E, Emttan Magan, Veyyil, Rendu, Chennai Kaadhal, Thiruvilaiyaadal Aarambam.

Ayngaran next title done from a D6 source was supposed to be Pudhuppettai . However, a problem has arisen from the producers. To avoid this Ayngaran has dropped this title from their catalogue.

PS) I have managed to see a preview of EROS forthcoming HD titles (like Shabd & Mughal-E-Azam) and their quality is just as bad as the DVD version, but at a frame-size of 1280 x 1024. Looks like they are using the same masters made for the DVD versions...

not ony cooperate but competent, knowlegable too

Why? D5 compression is so much better than DVD at the highest rate that I find it hard to believe that you can see any difference. I have heard talk about HD-DVD showing D5 limits at high bit rates with VC-1, but not MPEG2 on DVD. So did you see compression problems on D5 visible on DVD (which adds another layer of compression problems on top) that went away with D6?

There certainly was no 4K transfer. At best the Spirit sampled internally at 4K and then output downsampled HD 1080p (2K makes no sense for creating a HD master only). A 4K chain is way too expensive for video mastering.

What has 20/20 vision got to do with color problems? If the colors are correct on the DI it's a matter of mapping to the HD color space which means some colors have to be approximated. As long as the guy has normal color vision and properly calibrated monitors he should be able to do the job right. If colors need to be tweaked further it's an artistic call first, not a vision problem. The 20/20 vision thing makes sense concerning sharpening, DNR filtering and compression since here you need to be able to see artifacts of all kinds on sometimes small monitors that hide them.

That you can often see on (good) DVDs too. Even Indian DVDs from Eros etc. And on HD there is no hiding anyway. HD on HD-DVD or BR with a good encode shows so much that it is already a big issue concerning film grain with one faction asking for the grain to stay (since that is how the film was shot and made) and the other demanding a clean video look since grain is 'bad'. The second faction is clueless but probably the majority. If the studios cater to them, bye bye film look, hello HD cam look, bye bye film heritage, hello high tech revisionism.

What is the rationale of producing something for the Dubai region only? A rich Dubai sponsor paying for the mastering and pressing? Was VC-1 used? Who mastered the disc? Sales URL? How can I get a copy?

They are releasing on HD-DVD or BR or the Chinese disc? Not that it matters if they release Digibeta quality upsampled to a weird resolution. Well, DCH will be real 1080p.

By the way, I hope more and more DVDs and of course soon HD-DVDs/BR are made this way, the proper way, and the usual trash quality is retreating more and more (apna sapna HD HD).

Sunny, first, Vallavan looks far more entertaining than Menon's VV, this coming from the initial KK experience, and having watching the music videos in VV and Vallavan. Paartha Mudhal Naale, on the motorcycle, lol, there was no wind, or what? the chicks hair is frozen. yeah, I understand, they shot it in a studio, but use a freaking fan.

from all the information I've gathered over the years, re: prasad labs, I've come to the conclusion, the answer to my question is simply NEGLECT by the DVD Distributor (Ayngaran, iDream, KAD..etc). they don't care about the less popular films, so they neglect it.

anyway, Sunny, I don't care much for new Tamil movies. I'm more concerned about 70's and 80's gems. Any chance of Ayngaran getting in on the action?? Pyramid molested the DVD scene. and EVP went into a financial poop hole. Ayngaran is our only hope

[quote "mhafner"]
Why? D5 compression is so much better than DVD at the highest rate that I find it hard to believe that you can see any difference. I have heard talk about HD-DVD showing D5 limits at high bit rates with VC-1, but not MPEG2 on DVD. So did you see compression problems on D5 visible on DVD (which adds another layer of compression problems on top) that went away with D6?

The final D6 master was designed for future HD releases. Since we was aware on the limitations of a D5 tape, with compression, it was decided not to make another master for DVD, and to save costs we used the existing D6 tape.

[quote "mhafner"]
There certainly was no 4K transfer. At best the Spirit sampled internally at 4K and then output downsampled HD 1080p (2K makes no sense for creating a HD master only). A 4K chain is way too expensive for video mastering.

The film was originally scanned at a true 4K resolution so that it did not lose any resolution for some shots that were digital manipulated (like zooming in, fast whips etc...). The final film was then saved and stored on a system, which was developed for digital projection (in Chennai). Later on, the same source was used when it came to making a D6 tape. However, I’m not sure if it was downsampled. I’ll find out, and let you know.

[quote "mhafner"]
What has 20/20 vision got to do with color problems? If the colors are correct on the DI it's a matter of mapping to the HD color space which means some colors have to be approximated. As long as the guy has normal color vision and properly calibrated monitors he should be able to do the job right. If colors need to be tweaked further it's an artistic call first, not a vision problem. The 20/20 vision thing makes sense concerning sharpening, DNR filtering and compression since here you need to be able to see artifacts of all kinds on sometimes small monitors that hide them.

If the telecinst is using their own "artistic call" (even for little tweaking) then it may not reflect the original intentions of the film-maker. Perhaps this is why there are so many problems with film transfers across the globe, and constantly a DVD is being re-released with brand new transfers. You really need a film-maker (director or DOP) present, alongside a technical operator, to grade and colour correct the picture accordingly. Also, its no good relying solely on calibrated monitors. You really need to be aware of its internal graphics card (which can register colour signature), but sometimes a good pair of eyes can aid the process. Perfect vision (even with a long/short sight person wearing glasses) helps with sharpness and compression to ensure quality, which is particularly needed on long Indian films which are being presented on a DVD-9 disc. This can be forever debated, and there is neither right nor wrong. There is only personal preference.

[quote "mhafner"]
That you can often see on (good) DVDs too. Even Indian DVDs from Eros etc. And on HD there is no hiding anyway. HD on HD-DVD or BR with a good encode shows so much that it is already a big issue concerning film grain with one faction asking for the grain to stay (since that is how the film was shot and made) and the other demanding a clean video look since grain is 'bad'. The second faction is clueless but probably the majority. If the studios cater to them, bye bye film look, hello HD cam look, bye bye film heritage, hello high tech revisionism.

Likewise, I have seen them on a "good" DVD too. However, a layperson would spot them more clearly on HD – this was the point I was trying to make. Film grain is present on every negative (as a result of stock quality, exposure, aging process etc...). At times it is difficult to distinguish which is which. Maybe their inclusion on the final master should decided by the film-makers, instead of the post production industry!

[quote "mhafner"]
What is the rationale of producing something (HD-DVD) for the Dubai region only? A rich Dubai sponsor paying for the mastering and pressing? Was VC-1 used? Who mastered the disc? Sales URL? How can I get a copy?

I have no idea why this title was chosen. I was informed by the CEO of Ayngaran about this, and have recently requested a copy. Like I stated in my post, once I receive it I will review the disc on this forum. I do know that Dubai is rather partially to new technology, and that it contains many Indian migrants.

[quote "mhafner"]
They are releasing on HD-DVD or BR or the Chinese disc? Not that it matters if they release Digibeta quality upsampled to a weird resolution. Well, DCH will be real 1080p.

The masters they had the films on was a D5 source, so regardless which format they release it on it will still look shitty.

Director of VV regrets the crappy blue-screen keying seen in the song Paartha Mudhal Naale, which he mentions in his commentary. Its not a great film, but I do recommend watching it. It certainly is miles better then many Indian releases of 2006.

Vallavan is a mess from start to finish and simply tries to promote Simbhu as the next Superstar (which he is clearly not). My pet rabbit has more charisma! The only good thing which came from this film was the song score by Yuvan S. Raja.

Ayngaran are focusing more on new releases at present...sorry! I too wish they release more classics. I constantly bug them to release masterpieces like Thaneer Thaneer, 16 Vayadhinile, Aboorva Sagodharargal, Karnan etc...

AP International (india) have recently released the classic Andha Naal, which is okay quality (better then pyramid DVD).

2K, 4K, whatever. I just wish that these films were worth watching as well!

yeah, I'm a huge fan of southern indian music videos, and that video was a complete let down. some elements of it were nice, def not the blue-screen/key or whatever you call it.

the thing with Simbu, you can usually predict what you are getting yourself into, even before watching it. and yeah, I get you on the whole attempting to be Rajni thing. Time will tell?

so Tamil classics will forever be doomed I mean, the longer you wait, the higher the likelihood of a decent print/negative deteriorating, if there are any decent prints NOW.

When it already exists use it, of course. No point copying to D5. But D6 is hardly used anymore. The standard now is HDCAM SR. Why was that not used?

The whole film at 4K sounds unbelievable. You need many terrabytes of data. It's even in Hollywood very rare since it's so expensive and cloggs up the systems. 2K from 4K scans is standard, though.

Yes. One of the problems is getting people interested and come in at all... Other problems are work flow related or technical. Then there are incompetent people, of course, bad hardware, a mindset not interested at all in quality product (and paying for it).

We all wait for your findings.

You mean D5 HD tape format? That one looks excellent when properly done. It's 6-25 times less compressed than a normal HD-DVD or BR disc. If it looks like crap they put crap on it. Not the format's fault. I guess that was your point. If it looks awful from D5 all hope is lost.

I love the soundtracks. They really are amongst the best in India! It's a shame that most of the music videos don't live upto expectations. The wonderful track "Nirupea", in VV, could have been shot better instead of the usual MTV crap!!

Simbu can sometimes surprise. His performance in Manmadhan and Totti Jaya boosted the flawed screenplay.

Recently, the Tamil Film Industry, are starting to find ways to save the classics, after the much publicised Balu Mehendra incident.

To answer your question, only the film-makers would know why a D6 tape or 4k resolution was used. I'll check on the 4k issue to see how exactly what occured.

Sunny, did the films you mentioned (Vallavan, Varalaaru, etc.) have DIs?

Vallavan and Godfather does not have DI, so the DVD was done from the original 35mm camera negative masters.