It is currently Sun Sep 28, 2025 5:23 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
These days, mostly we have been getting Field Averaged Interlaced (Film to PAL to NTSC and mixed up fields) authorings on Silver media Discs.

Still every now and then you do get Direct Film to NTSC cine-tel authored DVDs. These DVDs are either Progressive (24 frames per sec) or in the worst case Pseudo-Progressive (30 frames per sec where every 5th frame is a repeated frame; 2-3 pull down avail).

Recently, I noticed 4 out of 4 (EROS) DVDs on Gold media. Another rareity.

It will be nice to share this info as any one finds it in occasionally.

Thanks.

Rana

To start off:

PARWANA
KUCHH NA KAHO

TV promos of Kuchh Na Kaho as well as Parwana were direct Film to NTSC cine-tel converted. I'm sure these EROS DVDs are at least Pseudo-progressive. As I found other 4 EROS DVDs on Gold media, may be these are on Gold media as well.

Rana




Edited By rana on 1064241621


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 3:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
I dont think, Parwana is pROG..KNK, just got released over the weekend, so, will see? But I dont think, Prog and EROS make any sense any more! :baaa:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 3:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
Except for 4 - 8 early EROS solo DVDs, all EROS DVDs are Interlaced. Interlaced, but a lots of them are Pseudo-progressive (2-3 frame pattern detectable). This is an indication of direct film to NTSC cine-tel conversion. As you know, the authoring quality has been going downhill, and mostly is 'Film to PAL to NTSC' converted and almost always ends up being field averaged, where original film frames are not detectable or separable at all. Pseudo-prog is better looking to eyes than field averaged. Plus, with proper line doublers, it is possible to obtain the original film frames back from a Pseudo-progressive DVD.

Hence, finding a Pseudo-progressive DVD is a welcome change.

BTW, has any one seen Parwana or Kuchh Na Kaho DVDs?? These may not be Progressive, but are they Pseudo-prog as I noticed on TV commercials??

Rana


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2002 10:11 pm
Posts: 1203
Location: vancouver, canada
i saw both and i think they are Pseudo-progressive.
btw, i am not sure if tere naam was Pseudo-progressive and in gold media. rana can u conferm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
oh, i c, what do u think about, chalte chalte, armaan, tere naam izzi, and DMH too? are they all pseudo prog, lol..and on gold media? ???


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:05 pm
Posts: 1764
Location: God's Country!
Quote:
Recently, I noticed 4 out of 4 (EROS) DVDs on Gold media. Another rareity


No way not gold! Do take an other look :D Maybe a mixture of brass and copper but definitely not gold! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 4:17 pm
Posts: 2853
Location: Canada
JamesBond007 wrote:
Quote:
Recently, I noticed 4 out of 4 (EROS) DVDs on Gold media. Another rareity


No way not gold! Do take an other look :D Maybe a mixture of bra's(s) and copper but definitely not gold! :D

..Hmmm !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:05 pm
Posts: 1764
Location: God's Country!
Quote:
bra's(s)


Really?, how interesting! You naughty, naughty boy! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
One point, re NTSC direct telecine, my apologies rana?

If pseudo prog is a badly authored/flagged direct NTSC telecine transfer, then WHY? KMG is declared by HAFNER as PAL to NTSC transfer?

I am a bit confused here!! :baaa: ???


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
Sorry. Incorrect post. Deleted.
Rana




Edited By rana on 1064335231


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
arsh wrote:
One point, re NTSC direct telecine, my apologies rana?

If pseudo prog is a badly authored/flagged direct NTSC telecine transfer, then WHY? KMG is declared by HAFNER as PAL to NTSC transfer?

I am a bit confused here!! :baaa: ???

I haven't seen KMG yet. Did mhafner or someone else ID it as Field Averaged or PAL to NTSC transfer??

Rana


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
It is not FIELD AVERAGED:


Shahran Sunny Audit




Group: Members
Posts: 690
Joined: Dec. 2001 Posted: Sep. 17 2003,14:59

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The DVD looks like it was downconverted from a PAL source...

--------------
You want to read this part of my msg....why? What will you get out of it....? Would you think that by reading this you would have tried to find a way to understand me? Or that you feel some hidden message about forthcoming DVDs might be within the realms of this signature? You poor creature!

** Oh, it was sunny's comment, Did mhafner review it? yet?

3 in 1 Saathiya/Devdas/Hero DVD from my friend. He got it from India. It looks like it is ripped off from the original YRF Saathiya DVD. It is Anamorphic. It looked like they have reduce the bit rate to 2.5 -3Mbps

Before jumping to expensive SAATHIYA DVD, try 2in1 DVD. It should have higher bit rate. Most likely, it still won't be much better PQ, nor will be the original.

I searched this forum and it looks like the NTSC DVD is converted from the original PAL DVD.

I wish, original PAL DVD is a reality. At least we can get our hands on proper video which has not gone through system conversion, root cause of all the problems in my opinion. Don't know, why do they foolishly telecine in PAL when they know that DVD is going to be NTSC. They routinely do 'system conversion' with a press of a button. It's easy for them. They don't know any more.


Many people are saying that is one of the best DVDs they have seen

Colors are vibrant and they have small TVs, not the 106 inch one that you have. Other fine PQ problems that you noticed even on small TV, they either don't notice or don't care about them.

Should I go for the original DVD or just forget about it.

I don't know if any one has done any side by side comparison. Best is to rent it and decide. It'll be great if you tell us what you find??

Rana

Edited by rana on Aug. 29 2003,13:28
Back to top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


*** I personally think, KMG is like SAATHIYA transfer, with inferior sound and much more EE!!




Edited By arsh on 1064336414


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
Looks like the above post contains quotes from varios messages/ posts. I might or might not have said any of it, but seems all to be credited to me??

Rana


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
Sorry!!Yaar!!I did not mean that..but my concern, is, if pseudo prog are direct telecine to ntsc, then saathiya/kmg should be satisfactory?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
I am no expert, but to my understanding:

PSEUDO-PROGRESSIVE:
It really is interlaced, but What we have been calling Pseudo-progressive (24 fps film to 60 fields/sec) is where during step forwarding, we see every 5th field an exact (or with some minimal noise) repeat of the 4th field. Pixel comparing Line doublers can detect this repeat pattern, throw away the repeated info and assmble the original 24 film frames back.
These 24 frames are then displayed as 60 full frames (480 lines of res; some frames displayed two times and some displayed 3 times on a 60 Hz display) on progressive displays. (One can go one step further, but I don’t know how to achieve it and verify it, is to display these 24 frames displayed 3 times each for a 72 Hz set.)

PROGRESSIVE:
It really is interlaced, but What we have been calling Progressive DVD is where only the original 24 frames are recorded as 48 fields but with an instruction to repeat every 4th field to get the 5th field to match with the 60 Hz NTSC frequency.

FIELD AVERAGED INTERLACED:
It really is interlaced, and what we have been calling as Field Averaged Interlaced is where 24 film frames have been changed into 60 fields without any repeat pattern. Obviously, each video field contains info from more than one film frame. It is not a must that PAL to NTSC converted video has to be field averaged, but 99% of PAL to NTSC DVDs that we see are like that. Some of EVP Hindi DVDs that are not progressive, you see that every 5th and 6th step is the same. This is a clear indication of 25 frames per sec changing to 60 fields per sec.

FILM—PAL—NTSC conversions:
Film to PAL coversion involves 24 fps changing to 50 fields per sec. Industry accepted practice is to run the film faster at 25 frames per sec (4% speed shift; what we have been calling Progressive DVD).
But, Indian Film to PAL conversions try to compensate for this extra frame.
Some, by repeating every 25th field. Present day line doublers don’t anticipate this and hence can’t assemble the original film frames back. Perhaps one day some line doubler will work for this situation as well.
Some, by averaging out 24 frames into 50 fields. No line doubler will ever get the original frames back from this.

Now converting from PAL to NTSC can again be either by repeating certain fields or by averaging. Most of the times 'Film to PAL and then to NTSC' transfers end up being field averaged in one of the stages or accumulate so much video noise that no repeat pattern is visible or detectable. 6 or 7 EVP DVDs are an exception.

Direct Film to NTSC and Field Averagged:
Just like 24 fps Film to 50 fields/ sec PAL can be either field averaged or every 25th field repeated, 24 fps Film to 60 fields/sec NTSC too can be either field averaged or can have every 5th field repeated.
Mostly, direct Film to NTSC cine-tel has repeat field pattern and is not field averaged.

NTSC to NTSC copy:
This too can be copied field by field or field averaged. Mostly, this too is done right, field by field, and not field averaged. Not even on chepest VCRs. Even in field by field copied VHS you may not detect any repeat pattern due to excessive video noise (nth generation copies).

OLD Indian Film VHSs:
Many early Indian Film VHS tapes have repeat field pattern visible; a sign of direct film to NTSC tele-cine. Later, Indian Film VHS’s didn’t have this repeat pattern. It is well known, Indian VHSs were mostly done for PAL countries and NTSC copies were converted from PAL.

Rana

P.S.
Arsh, I haven’t seen original YRF Saathiya. Is it Direct Film to NTSC cine-tel?? Is it Pseudo-prog??
I have 2in1 Saathiya-DKR. They seem like YRF sourced, but Saathiya is Field Averaged.




Edited By rana on 1064349061


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group