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mhafner
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:22 am 
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http://www.bimmini.com/kmgpics.htm
(interesting, interesting...)
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dograk
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:24 pm 
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stupid site just told the whole movie's plot :D

and so it is a dupe of ET!!....and hrithik looks damn retarded!
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Khiladi
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:34 pm 
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dograk wrote:
and so it is a dupe of ET!!....and hrithik looks damn retarded!


he is meant to be mentally handicapped, so i think he's got the right look happening...



Edited By Khiladi on 1046435840
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dograk
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:45 pm 
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i know - that's why i'm complimenting him :p
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sknath
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:48 pm 
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Khiladi wrote:
dograk wrote:
and so it is a dupe of ET!!....and hrithik looks damn retarded!


he is meant to be mentally handicapped, so i think he's got the right look happening...

Not ET, but Phenomenan. I happened to see the original 2 days back... and I really shudder to think what kinda a kachda Rakesh Roshan will do with this film !
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Aarkayne
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:40 pm 
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shouldnt this thread be merged with this first one ?

http://www.zulm.net/cgi-bin....il+gaya
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Aryan
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:35 am 
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Hahahahahaha :D What a joke!! The retarded old takla (roshan senior) thinks he is Steven Spielberg now! Special effects indeed. After decades of being in the movies, he still has to discover the meaning of lighting continuity, that editing is not just about pace, and of course screenplays that maybe someone over age of 8 could relate to. Another disgraceful film. The worst thing is that these films are released so widely that this is how ppl's impression of Bollywood forms.
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mhafner
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 8:07 am 
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Aryan wrote:
Hahahahahaha :D What a joke!! The retarded old takla (roshan senior) thinks he is Steven Spielberg now! Special effects indeed. After decades of being in the movies, he still has to discover the meaning of lighting continuity, that editing is not just about pace, and of course screenplays that maybe someone over age of 8 could relate to. Another disgraceful film. The worst thing is that these films are released so widely that this is how ppl's impression of Bollywood forms.

In all fairness we should not condemn the film before we
have actually seen it.
The lighting is the job of the DOP.
Can you give some specific examples where lighting is a
problem? There is a continuity problem in the song
"Chand sitare" in KHNPH which is understandable. Any
others?
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Aryan
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 10:53 am 
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Quote:
Quote (Aryan @ Feb. 28 2003,23:35)
Hahahahahaha What a joke!! The retarded old takla (roshan senior) thinks he is Steven Spielberg now! Special effects indeed. After decades of being in the movies, he still has to discover the meaning of lighting continuity, that editing is not just about pace, and of course screenplays that maybe someone over age of 8 could relate to. Another disgraceful film. The worst thing is that these films are released so widely that this is how ppl's impression of Bollywood forms.

In all fairness we should not condemn the film before we
have actually seen it.
The lighting is the job of the DOP.
Can you give some specific examples where lighting is a
problem? There is a continuity problem in the song
"Chand sitare" in KHNPH which is understandable. Any
others?

I think a Rakesh Roshan film can be quite safely 'condemned' prior to being watched. I think I've given him to many chances :) Koyla, Karan Arjun, KNPH are quite frankly crass money-spinners relying on decades old formulas. Why is the lighting problem in KNPH understandable? It shouldn't be. As an audience, I want to see a high quality work of art. If films like Lagaan and Mission Kashmir can have reasonable continuity with so made outdoor shots, why can't Rakesh Roshan's film (or his DOP, Kabir Lal). It is the director's responsibility to maintain the overall quality of a film. And the producer should choose a good DOP, editor, etc. Kabir Lal (W.I.C.A) is just about acceptable, but its true, he doesn't seem to care about continuity (e.g. Pardes, Taal) The problem is that his crew largely consists of countless stubborn old fogeys just like Subhash Ghai's and J.P. Dutta's crew. The editing style too, is very outdated in KNPH. Naa Tum Jaano Na Hum is an example of a similarly trashy film albeit with great cinematography and editing. KNPH didn't even have that.
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mhafner
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:43 am 
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Aryan wrote:
Quote:
Quote (Aryan @ Feb. 28 2003,23:35)
I think a Rakesh Roshan film can be quite safely 'condemned' prior to being watched. I think I've given him to many chances :) Koyla, Karan Arjun, KNPH are quite frankly crass money-spinners relying on decades old formulas. Why is the lighting problem in KNPH understandable? It shouldn't be. As an audience, I want to see a high quality work of art. If films like Lagaan and Mission Kashmir can have reasonable continuity with so made outdoor shots, why can't Rakesh Roshan's film (or his DOP, Kabir Lal). It is the director's responsibility to maintain the overall quality of a film. And the producer should choose a good DOP, editor, etc. Kabir Lal (W.I.C.A) is just about acceptable, but its true, he doesn't seem to care about continuity (e.g. Pardes, Taal) The problem is that his crew largely consists of countless stubborn old fogeys just like Subhash Ghai's and J.P. Dutta's crew. The editing style too, is very outdated in KNPH. Naa Tum Jaano Na Hum is an example of a similarly trashy film albeit with great cinematography and editing. KNPH didn't even have that.

I have only seen KNPH from Rakesh Roshan so I can't
comment on his other films.
The lighting problem in the song is understandable
because this twilight is only present for a short time.
You either shoot this on as many days as you need (which
is a luxury and costly) or you make the best out of it
in a short time. The budget for the film was limited. The
Roshans had mortgaged their house etc. and cost saving was
a must. If the film had bombed they would have been sitting
on a mountain of debts.
Yes, Mission Kashhmir and Lagaan are technically more
polished, but they are among the few exceptions. The Bollywood system does not promote quality but mediocrity and
sticking to the tried and tested.
I applaud Rakesh Roshan for at least trying something
different in the Indian context. How different it will be
we will see in August.
As far as editing is concerned KNPH was quite effective,
outdated or not. Editing styles change all the time. That
does not make a specific style good or bad, just in or out.
The editing is only a problem if it does not fit the story
and style of the film. I don't think that is the case in
KNPH.
I also have to disagree with the notion than NTJNH is a
trashy film. It has 'trashy' formula elements but on the
whole it's not a trashy film. And the cinematography in
that film has its share of problems too! Very few Indian
films have impeccable cinematography.
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Aryan
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 6:36 am 
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Quote:
The lighting problem in the song is understandable
because this twilight is only present for a short time.
You either shoot this on as many days as you need (which
is a luxury and costly) or you make the best out of it
in a short time. The budget for the film was limited. The
Roshans had mortgaged their house etc. and cost saving was
a must. If the film had bombed they would have been sitting
on a mountain of debts.

In that case, he might have thought of an alternative concept for the scene. I understand the problem. But if he cared enough about the quality of his film, he wouldn't settle for it.
Quote:
The Bollywood system does not promote quality but mediocrity and
sticking to the tried and tested.

Well...I think KNPH and Koyla are great examples to add to this.
Quote:
As far as editing is concerned KNPH was quite effective,
outdated or not. Editing styles change all the time. That
does not make a specific style good or bad, just in or out.
The editing is only a problem if it does not fit the story
and style of the film. I don't think that is the case in
KNPH.

Editing is not an easy job and it certainly isn't just about fitting the story and style of a film. There are certain 'visual grammatical' rules to follow. Occasionally, these can be broken just as how an author or poet might in literary work. While KNPH has relatively ok editing in that sense, it's the style which bothered me a bit e.g. having Amisha Patel's introductory shot repeated 3 times. It is ridiculously tacky.
Quote:
I also have to disagree with the notion than NTJNH is a
trashy film. It has 'trashy' formula elements but on the
whole it's not a trashy film. And the cinematography in
that film has its share of problems too! Very few Indian
films have impeccable cinematography

About NTJNH...I dunno...I found it trashy, but that is subjective. The cinematography may have had problems but they were borne out of being innovative in the first place. I'm not saying that the cinematography was impeccable. It's just that there was more effort put in than KNPH.
In any case, I think that KNPH is the epitome of bad Indian cinema due to a few other reasons. An extremely immature screenplay, very poorly sketched characters out of which many were caricatures e.g. the "Le liye na sir" guy and the 3 'bad' guys. Amisha Patel was a prop which could speak lines like "I'm shocked" upon discovering that her father is 'evil'. Hrithik's character's friends don't seem to have any other life apart from worrying about him. Like he really is a star. Rajesh Roshan's music especially title track is so disturbingly mediocre that I lost all hope in Indian music after the album. Only the Lucky Ali composed and sung track "Ek Pal Ka Jeena" is OK. That too is marred by Rajesh Roshan's tacky orchestration. Music recording took a 10 year leap back into time with the film. The music sound track by HMV has absolutely horrid recording quality. It isn't even high fidelity in any sense. It's like they haven't heard of compression, noise reduction, frequency equalization or band-pass filters which might have removed the undesired low frequency noise in the title track for example.



Edited By Aryan on 1046587127
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DVD Collector
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 7:42 am 
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Just to intervene--I think Kaho Na...Pyar Hai was and still is an entertaining film. The only downside to the movie was Amisha Patel's acting, while she looked sexy at times, but she couldn't act. Even the soundtrack was one of the best of its year, its basic plot kinda remind me of Hitchcock's Vertigo. Though this film is no where near the brilliance of Vertigo, but its an entertaining account on its own merits. I personally enjoy watching Kaho Na...Pyar Hai.

btw, the pics from Koi...Mil Gaya look very interesting. And it seems Roshan Jr. is going for a whole new look.

Image



Edited By DVD Collector on 1046591062
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mhafner
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 10:14 am 
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Hi,
Quote:
In that case, he might have thought of an alternative concept for the scene. I understand the problem. But if he cared enough about the quality of his film, he wouldn't settle for it.

I did not like the continuity problem either in that scene.
But that's life. You can be very sure that the film makers
did not like it too. In Hollywood they would fix
it digitally in post production. In Bollywood they can't.
I found it not nearly as bad as one sfx shot of the ship
in the sea at night with the fireworks. That was really
'cheesy'. While this is distracting the film still has many
well done moments too. Technically it's almost always a
mixed bag in Bollywood films with wildly uneven quality from
scene to scene, sometimes shot to shot.
Quote:
Editing is not an easy job and it certainly isn't just about fitting the story and style of a film. There are certain 'visual grammatical' rules to follow. Occasionally, these can be broken just as how an author or poet might in literary work. While KNPH has relatively ok editing in that sense, it's the style which bothered me a bit e.g. having Amisha Patel's introductory shot repeated 3 times. It is ridiculously tacky.

The rules are changing over time. There are different
editing styles. And they depend on current trends. Certain
ideas are in, others are out. The repetition of shots
irritates me too at times. It's one of these trendy devices
that look old quickly as soon it gets repeated too often.
Another is the repeated fast zooming in on the hero when
drama is imminent and tensions rise. The ultimate judge must
still be if the editing serves the story well or not.
Content and form must relate to each other. An Ozu film can
not be edited like "Company", but both are very well edited
at the same time.
Quote:
About NTJNH...I dunno...I found it trashy, but that is subjective. The cinematography may have had problems but they were borne out of being innovative in the first place.

The problems were the same as on most Bollywood films. Random focus on many shots, one shot is focused, the next is out of focus, the next is sharp, then comes a fuzzy one...
Concerning all the bad things of KNPH you mention it boils
down to the fact it's a Bollywood formula film with all the
usual traits. It's not better or worse than many others.
What makes it special are some sequences that are quite well
executed technically and Hrithik Roshan's undeniable screen
presence and star quality.
Concerning technical quality of the music the CDs of Rahman
are in another league (not to mention the musical content)
but I enjoyed the songs nonetheless.
The technical crew of KMG looks quite good to me. The sfx
are done by Western companies. I expect the film to be
good on a technical level. How good we will see when the
international rights are sold. If it's not Eros but a
Hollywood distributor things are looking promising. I know
from a Western source that's part of the team that the film
is quite special.
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dograk
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 4:12 pm 
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western distributor ka kya....it'll go to eros!

look at the distributors of his previous:
MDK- yashraj
NTJNH - eros
AMALL - spark
MK - ct (but that was a once in a lifetime...)
FIZA - vs
KNPH - dei


unless its something extraordinary....it'll go to the normal desi bhais...and it'll only be eros that could afford its' rights (which will be comparatively higher)
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Aryan
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 4:44 pm 
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Quote:
In Hollywood they would fix
it digitally in post production. In Bollywood they can't.

It's not really that difficult to do. Digital colour correction in post was used in Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham.
Quote:
Technically it's almost always a
mixed bag in Bollywood films with wildly uneven quality from
scene to scene, sometimes shot to shot.

See, the thing is I don't like 90% of Bollywood films. They are badly made. I try not to look at them. But I get frustrated when the bad ones are applauded when there are plenty of better Bollywood films around. They shouldn't be technically mediocre. If they are, we, as informed and savvy movie watchers should reject them. Frankly, I'm far more irritated by bad editing and cinematography than a poorly mastered DVD. Imagine, if some poorly made DVD by EROS goes on to be the highest selling Hindi DVD ever and it becomes the benchmark and representative of Hindi DVDs (something like Devdas) - doesn't that irritate you.
Quote:
The repetition of shots
irritates me too at times. It's one of these trendy devices
that look old quickly as soon it gets repeated too often.

You agree it's bad...but you don't say why it is ok in this case. In the case of cinematography - the poor focus is usually due to the ancient Cinemascope lenses being used in the industry. These lenses don't correct aberrations as well the Panavision ones in Hollywood. Also, these lenses require a lot of light to have enough depth of field so as not to cause focus problems. I suspect these poor focus shots are a result of these factors. Of course, these problems should be attempted to be minimised as much as possible.
Quote:
What makes it special are some sequences that are quite well
executed technically and Hrithik Roshan's undeniable screen
presence and star quality.

Which scenes? There is certainly no technically brilliant scene in the film I can remember. I think an under-rated film like Leela is far more technically brilliant...but who's gonna notice?
Hrithik Roshan's presence is undeniable. I'm not denying that, In fact, I firmly believe that if the film didn't have him, but some other unknown new guy, the film would have completely sunk without a trace.
Quote:
Concerning technical quality of the music the CDs of Rahman
are in another league (not to mention the musical content)
but I enjoyed the songs nonetheless.

The music itself is passable for listening in Indian mini-marts while shopping for ghee and such. I believe that if A.R. Rahman can do what he does, any established music director should at least come close 10% of his standard (recording quality and music composition). If not I'm not going to waste my time listening to it.
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