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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:57 pm 
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Rana,
Thank you for the list. But I would very much like to see the pq ranking next to the name. I know it is lot of work but I would like to see the rankings. As the rankings are subjective to the display and the reviewer and on most cases they are not consistent, as either of them change most of the time. So if you take the time to do the ranking I really appreciate your work.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:40 pm 
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I think you will agree with my preference to complete identifying as many DVDs for the 5 categories that I defined. Quite a few Songs DVDs have not been categorized yet. Then, there are another 30 or so that I recently received. Then I also want to add all those DVDs to the list that have been mentioned in this thread and elsewhere as progressive. So, there are another 100 or so DVDs to sort out.

Repporting technical facts is a lot easier than subjective pic quality. Rating 1 to 10 can be a method, but how do you decide which property/ flaw to give more importance or less importance. For example, Progressive is very important to me but not to others. Actually, Shemaroo's Chor Chor boasts "Smooth Viewing", another advantageous name for thoroughly interlaced, on its cover.

Rana


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:52 pm 
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Yes you are right Rana, It is very difficult to rank DVDs for their pq. And also the preference may vary. Of course Progressive is very important to me also. May be it will be easier if you use separate ranking for each of these 5 categories. May be you can use 1 to 10 for each category not clubbing together.
For example I am very much interested to see the entire progressive DVDs lined up with PQ ranking.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 2:23 pm 
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ganti wrote:
This has all the best songs from the new YRF movies a total of 210 minutes authorized by Prasad digital.
I will check tonight on home setup and let you know how is the qualtiy for an interlaced dvd.

Ganti,

In case of YRF's Songs DVD; It is interlaced (even thogh original movie DVDs were Prog) and double the price. Just out of curocity, is the anamorphic picture handled as anamorphic??

Thanks.

Rana


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 2:38 pm 
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Rana,
Quote:
In case of YRF's Songs DVD; It is interlaced (even thogh original movie DVDs were Prog) and double the price. Just out of curocity, is the anamorphic picture handled as anamorphic??

Yes they have done it properly.

P.S. I think I have mentioned this before, powerDVD ForceBob setting will improve picture quality and should look better than smart detect. But I am not sure whether you can notice this on a smaller screen.




Edited By ganti on 1036161544


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2002 3:38 pm 
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Ranaji,
for your eyes only from HomeTheaterHifi.com about "A Beautiful Mind" dvd review.

Technical Aspects

Overall the video quality is excellent. The image is detailed and free of noise. The only thing keeping the video quality from a perfect 5 is the small amount of edge enhancement found in the film. The movie is largely focused on dialogue, which was clear and high quality. Surround channels weren’t really used except for one or two sequences, in which it was effective but not memorable.

We are going to try something new starting with this DVD, which is to analyze the quality of the MPEG flag encoding on the disc. This part of the review will only be relevant if you are using a progressive scan DVD player. Since this is the first disc with such a review anywhere, it is hard to know how good or bad the disc is because we have not established a baseline. This will happen over time as we view more discs. The ultimate purpose of this section is to inform our readers working in the DVD production industry, so that they can correct problems we find, in future discs.

We found that, during the entire length of the film, the flags dropped from film to video mode 25 times. This means that the 3-2 pulldown flag cadence vanished for a moment at each drop. The majority of the drops only lasted for 10 video fields. Most of these appeared on an edit or scene change. Two of the drops were for approximately 60 fields of video. Neither of these happened during a scene change or edit, and as far as we could tell, there was a strong 3-2 pulldown cadence present. If you are using a progressive DVD player that reads the flags, you may see a comb or double image at each drop point. The image below is from one of the 60 field drops and you can see the double image from the player going into video mode deinterlacing. You can see the blur on her shoulders, pointed out by the white arrows. The DVD player dropped into video mode and applied a vertical filter to the entire image. This scene takes place at approximately 40 minutes and 4 seconds in chapter 9. If you are using a DVD player with a Sage or Silicon Image chip, you should see no problems at all.



There did not appear to be any problems around chapter breaks, which is a good sign. Since this is the first review that looks at the flags, we thought we would share with you 1 second of MPEG flags where such a glitch occurs.

E 01:29:00 | C 00:05:50
Pic: 08 P:F:P-B
Pic: 09 B:F:PRB
Pic: 10 B:F:P-T
Pic: 11 P:F:PRT
Pic: 00 B:F:P-B
Pic: 01 B:F:PRB
Pic: 02 I:F:P-T
Pic: 03 B:F:PRT
Pic: 04 B:F:P-B
Pic: 05 P:F:PRB
Pic: 06 B:F:P-T
Pic: 07 P:F:--T
Pic: 08 B:F:--T
Pic: 09 P:F:--T
Pic: 10 P:F:--T
Pic: 00 I:F:--T
Pic: 01 B:F:PRT
Pic: 02 P:F:P-B
Pic: 03 B:F:PRB
Pic: 04 B:F:P-T
Pic: 05 P:F:PRT
Pic: 06 B:F:P-B
Pic: 07 B:F:PRB
Pic: 08 P:F:P-T
Pic: 09 B:F:PRT
E 01:30:00 | C 00:06:50


Here is a quick guide on how to decode the flags:

Pic: 00 I:F:PRT

The first number, 00, is the relative picture number in that I-frame sequence. The next letter tells whether it’s an I, B, or P frame. The letter after that tells whether it’s frame or field structured (F = frame, T = top field, B = bottom field). The last three letters are progressive_frame, repeat_first_field, and top_field_first. The sequence --T is what the flags look like when it is encoded as video instead of film. One Pic line represent either 3 or 2 fields. When looking at the last group of characters, a 'PR' represents 3 fields and a 'P-' or '--' represents 2 fields.

We marked the problem area above in red. There are usually 24 pictures in a second of time for film and 30 for a second of video. When you have a mixture of film and video, the number of pictures will be anywhere from 24 to 30. If you look at Pic 9 above, it is 3 fields, Pic 10 is 2 fields, Pic 11 is 3 fields. This is the 3-2 pattern that you often read about.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9 ... .html#MPEG




Edited By ganti on 1039189153


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:53 pm 
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No such thing in publicized "Smooth View" DVDs. Video fields are averaged and there is no repeat frame or field, forget about repeat sequence.

Why make good product? They did get away by making CDs out of Audio Cassetts and selling them as CDs. Physically they were CDs, technically they still were cassetts.

Rana

BTW, Beautiful Mind, basically still is a Prog DVD. It just has some glitches.




Edited By rana on 1039193853


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:57 pm 
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YES, RANA!! DISC PAR CASSETE(AUDIO) AND DISC VER VHS(DVD)..CALLED TAWA(DISC) PAR CHADHANA! :bangbang: :baaa: :angry:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2002 7:01 pm 
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rana wrote:
Not complete the way I want it to be.

In the meanwhile here is a temp copy.

Mujhse Dosti Karoge YRF I

Hi,
The NTSC DVDs made from PAL with repeated fields need
an extra label since they look worse than frame averaging
only. MDK an Yaadein need that label. Don't know about
other Prasad titles. Anybody seen more Prasad NTSC DVDs with
that ugly jerky motion?
Michel Hafner


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:03 pm 
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Location: Canada
mhafner wrote:
rana wrote:
Not complete the way I want it to be.

In the meanwhile here is a temp copy.

Mujhse Dosti Karoge YRF I

Hi,
The NTSC DVDs made from PAL with repeated fields need
an extra label since they look worse than frame averaging
only. MDK an Yaadein need that label. Don't know about
other Prasad titles. Anybody seen more Prasad NTSC DVDs with
that ugly jerky motion?
Michel Hafner

Michel yeah I have seen that myself .... Excessive jerky artifacts in their Ek Duje Ke Liye DVD .. which is surprising as its their own film (i.e they should have the negative etc.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 4:06 pm 
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I wonder, if Michel and Sknath are saying the same thing??

I think, Michel is referring to un-neccessarily repeated every 25th frame for Film to PAL transfer (and it stays in further conversions; PAL to NTSC).

Sknath's Ek Duje Ke Liye, I think, has averaged fields. Therefore, no repeated frames or jerky motion. There are multi-images in each frame though.

Rana


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:13 am 
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rana wrote:
I wonder, if Michel and Sknath are saying the same thing??

I think, Michel is referring to un-neccessarily repeated every 25th frame for Film to PAL transfer (and it stays in further conversions; PAL to NTSC).

Sknath's Ek Duje Ke Liye, I think, has averaged fields. Therefore, no repeated frames or jerky motion. There are multi-images in each frame though.

Rana

MDK and Yaadein have every 24th FIELD repeated (not frame)
and they have frame averaging too, but not in every frame.
The result is jerky and smeared motion. Frame averaging
alone gives smeared motion but not jerky motion.
Just watch the pan at the beginning of MDK over the hill
with trees. It should be smooth, but it's jerky. You see
it best when the camera moves with constant velocity.
It's a braindead way of transfering to PAL. :ffs:
MH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2003 8:53 pm 
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I wonder if any of you following the interesting discussion about PAL Vs NTSC DVDs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb....umber=2


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:18 pm 
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ganti wrote:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_....00.html

That is the best explanation you can find any ware about this subject.

This link got a major update in Dec 2002. Time to get an update.

Rana

BTW, Ganti, couldn't get to the PAL vs NTSC debate link??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:21 pm 
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Location: columbus
Rana,
The link PAL vs NTSC working for me. Check again.

And seems like there is a major update of info on that site, need some time to find out

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_....00.html




Edited By ganti on 1042665920


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