It is currently Sun Sep 28, 2025 9:59 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 5:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
This is taken from a PRESTIGIOUS AV magazine! Forum!!

Every one!! WELCOME! to PUT ur 2 cents! here!!

I thought, HARD WARE, should be kept SEPERATE from SOFTWARE!

SECONDALLY!! It does not mean that I dont ADVOCATE, PROG players or PROG DVDS!! I do!! and I dont PATRONIZE, EROS shit DEVDAS!! either!!

BUT!! REALITY CHECK is MUST too!! I dont want every one rushing to get PROG player? UNNECESSARILY, UNLESS they have a PROPER display to EXPERIENCE the BENEFITS!!

REST ASSURED! once u see it! you wont go back!



Q I was thinking of buying one of two Panasonic home theater systems. With one of them, the DVD player has progressive scan, while the other doesn't. I have an old analogue TV and was wondering if the progressive scan one makes a difference in the picture or if it even works with my TV?

A Progressive scan won't work with old TVs, but if you get a new digital TV, the component video output of the progressive scan DVD player might very well work with it. Depending on the situation now with PAL in Europe, and DVD players outputting progressive scan, it might be necessary for you to use the component video connections in interlaced mode, but it will still be better than the S-Video connection, and certainly much better than the composite video connection. The non-progressive scan DVD player may or may not have component video outputs.

:baaa: :oo: :O ???


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 2:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2002 10:54 pm
Posts: 24
Arsh Bhai-having a prog scan DVD player without having a prog scan TV, will not give you the PQ you are looking for & vice versa.However having said that, ultimate PQ & sound will depend upon the quality of the master.Re: Devdas DVD, I agree with you that the quality of PQ & sound could have been much better, but personally , I think that it isn't as bad as made out to be.Eros could have done better with PQ :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 2:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 4:17 pm
Posts: 2853
Location: Canada
Jas wrote:
I think that it isn't as bad as made out to be.Eros could have done better with PQ :D

Jas bhai, this has been discussed at length in the Devdas thread. I agree with u that unless u have a component input for ur TV and also u dont have a progressive TV then Devdas in its present form is wonderful... But saying that will be an insult .. cos remember this film was touted as a SPECIAL film :) ..Dont think that watching the film on this kinda DVD ppl @ Hollywood would even bother watching the film in its entirety !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 3:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
sknath wrote:
Jas wrote:
I think that it isn't as bad as made out to be.Eros could have done better with PQ :D

Jas bhai, this has been discussed at length in the Devdas thread. I agree with u that unless u have a component input for ur TV and also u dont have a progressive TV then Devdas in its present form is wonderful... But saying that will be an insult .. cos remember this film was touted as a SPECIAL film :) ..Dont think that watching the film on this kinda DVD ppl @ Hollywood would even bother watching the film in its entirety !

Devdas is Pseudo-Progressive, i.e. Pixel to Pixel comparing DVD player or line doubler can weave back the original film frames back. Ganti, Arsh have this kind of DVD player. Ganti, Arsh, could you please give your impressions on the PQ of Devdas when successfully converted progressive.

Thanks.

Rana

P.S.
Just like many/ some of us have acquired Power DVD software, similarly a Pixel to Pixel comparing advanced DVD playing software may be pickable from the net somewhere. Additional cost will be minimal or may be zero.
Any ideas where??


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 4:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2002 10:54 pm
Posts: 24
Quote:
..Dont think that watching the film on this kinda DVD ppl @ Hollywood would even bother watching the film in its entirety !

Hi SK- could'nt agree with you more.I was just making a comparison between good, bad & acceptable.In this case the dvd of Devdas being acceptable.By the same token a dvd of a movie of this stature should be nothing short of perfect with the best video transfer & DD Surround EX or DTS ES 6.1, ideally,especially if the Co makes claims to that effect.Apart from calling Eros & the likes B-------*.Are we in a position to change anything.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2002 5:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
Another!! Tutorial on pROG scan dvd and players!!

Q Does anybody sell progressively encoded DVDs? And if not, why not?

A It is mostly the processing and display where the progressive issue is resolved. The information from a film-based movie on a DVD is simply reassembled into a progressively displayed image, if you have a progressive scan DVD player and/or a digital TV.

However, there are a handful of 480p/30 DVDs available from DVD International. They are not films but digital images. The Sage deinterlacer has a problem with 480p/30 DVDs, and it will drop to video mode.

You are probably asking about film DVDs. "Okalahoma" and "Around the World in 80 Days" are produced at 480p/30. There are currently no DVDs that are encoded as 24 fps film and true progressive as you are asking. Some of the test patterns on Sound & Vision Home Theater Tune-Up are optimized for 480p and not 480i. If you watch the focus pattern on 480i, you will see a lot of flicker, but it looks clean at 480p. The reason is because there is detail which exists as a single scan line in height. You do not see this with film DVDs because they all go through an anti-flicker filter (vertical low pass filter on luma) before being MPEG encoded. This reduces flicker on interlaced TVs and it makes compression easier because about 30% of the vertical resolution has been tossed out.

Digital Video Essentials will be optimized for progressive scan playback and will flicker like the dickens on an interlaced display.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6146
arsh wrote:
"Okalahoma" and "Around the World in 80 Days" are produced at 480p/30. There are currently no DVDs that are encoded as 24 fps film and true progressive as you are asking.

I know, these are special films, but were they shot on non-24fps film?? If so, then they must have needed special projectors as well??

Rana




Edited By rana on 1036435343


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 6:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 4:17 pm
Posts: 2853
Location: Canada
[url=http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html
]http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_....tml
[/url]
Why are progressive players better?

With all the hype flying around about progressive DVD players, many people have assumed that when they get their new progressive player home and plug it in, the difference will smack them in the face and it will be like watching a whole new film. We’re here to tell you that’s not so. If you don’t know what to look for, the difference between interlaced and progressive can be quite subtle. Not to say that there’s no improvement, but it’s not the kind of improvement that will knock most viewers off their feet. Once you understand the improvements, though, and know what to look for, we think most people will be hooked, and will no longer want to watch their DVDs in interlaced form.

The magnitude of the change you will see also depends on what you were watching before. If you switch from a regular interlaced TV to a progressive-scanned 480p picture, you should see a much smoother, more film-like picture, with much less obvious scan line structure, and more apparent vertical resolution. The difference should, in fact, be pretty obvious. But if, like most new high-end TVs, your TV has a built in deinterlacer (often called a “line doubler”), then the television has been converting your interlaced signal to 480p already, so the smoothness and lack of line structure are already there. So what can a progressive DVD player offer? Better deinterlacing, to start with. In other words, the deinterlacer in the DVD player is likely better than the one in your TV.

Most high-end TVs have a motion-adaptive deinterlacer, with no film mode, so they can’t recreate a perfect progressive film frame from film-originated sources. (The TV has its deinterlacer optimized just for video sources, such as news broadcasts.) But nearly all progressive DVD players, certainly all the ones we review here, have a deinterlacer with a film mode (remember, film sources contain 24 unique frames per second, and video sources contain 60 unique fields per second). The result is that when watching film- originated DVDs, you will get far less line twitter on thin horizontal and near-horizontal lines, you will keep full resolution on camera pans and zooms, and you will see less noise on high-detail areas. To see this effect, look at thin lines in the background, especially on slow camera movement. Look at high-detail areas of the picture, like trees and bushes, again especially on slow camera moves. Once you see how sharp and clear those areas look with good film-mode deinterlacing, you won’t want to go back.

If you don’t really see any difference, then perhaps your TV has a better deinterlacer than most, and includes a film mode. Then you will see very subtle differences, perhaps no difference at all, switching between progressive and interlaced output on your DVD player. The deinterlacer in the TV may be just as good as the one in the DVD player. Even in this case, though, the progressive player has an advantage: better resolution. When the television deinterlaces the analog signal, it has to digitize the signal, send it through a deinterlacing chip, and convert it back to analog to feed to the CRTs. That process inevitably loses some resolution. It might not be much. You might feel like you can live with it. But it would be a good idea to get a copy of the Avia DVD and look at the resolution pattern on it to see exactly how much you are losing. About 10 TVL (TV Lines) of loss is good, 15 is average, and 20 or more is bad. With the progressive DVD player, you should be able to get all 540 TVL. But if your TV has a good film-mode deinterlacer, and you feel like you can live with the resolution loss, then save yourself the money and get a nice interlaced player.

Sometimes you see folks commenting on the improved blacks and color saturation of their progressive players. This is a mirage. Progressive players are not supposed to improve black level or color saturation. The reason it may look different is that the standard black level on a progressive player is usually different from the standard black level on an interlaced player, for technical reasons having to do with conflicting TV standards. And when black levels go down, the saturation of colors on the screen inevitably goes up, because white is being removed from the color. Once you calibrate your display with Avia or Video Essentials, the color, contrast, and black level should look exactly the same with interlaced vs. progressive. The only advantage of a progressive DVD player is in the lack of interlace artifacts. Of course, if your progressive DVD player is a lot better than your old interlaced player, it may look better for a variety of reasons. But it still shouldn’t change your black level or color saturation.




Edited By sknath on 1036519792


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2002 6:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:53 pm
Posts: 14989
Is the quality of a progressive scan DVD player better when viewed on a standard TV?


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... did=188618

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... did=188617




Edited By arsh on 1036910873


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2002 9:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 3:16 am
Posts: 4259
rana wrote:
arsh wrote:
"Okalahoma" and "Around the World in 80 Days" are produced at 480p/30. There are currently no DVDs that are encoded as 24 fps film and true progressive as you are asking.

I know, these are special films, but were they shot on non-24fps film?? If so, then they must have needed special projectors as well??

Rana

"Oklahoma" and "Around the World in 80 Days" were shot in the 65/70 Todd-AO process at 30fps. "Oklahoma" was the first Todd-AO production, and it was also filmed simultaneously in a 24fps version, in either CinemaScope or 1.37:1. I know "Around the World in 80 Days" was also had another 24fps version, but I do not know the aspect ratio.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group