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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2002 4:31 pm 
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I understand, there are no more than 5 or may be 10 Indian DVDs that are in PAL.

Rana
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ganti
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2002 4:42 pm 
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Rana,
Long time ego i.e. before I found zulm or about DEI or about Film based DVD's, I tried very hard to find a better way of watching EROS crap. Thinking that may be it is a problem with PAL speed up I tried to use 75HZ (multiples of 25). I thought it reduced the panning or combing but I have this fixed resolution projector works better with 60HZ I had to switch it back.
May be some one with a CRT can try this resolution successfully?



Edited By ganti on 1030552978
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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2002 5:07 pm 
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ganti wrote:
Rana,
Long time ego i.e. before I found zulm or about DEI or about Film based DVD's, I tried very hard to find a better way of watching EROS crap. Thinking that may be it is a problem with PAL speed up I tried to use 75HZ (multiples of 25). I thought it reduced the panning or combing but I have this fixed resolution projector works better with 60HZ I had to switch it back.
May be some one with a CRT can try this resolution successfully?

Ganti, I guess you were referring to my post that no more than 5 or 10 Indian DVDs exist in PAL (UK/INDIA).

Rana
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ganti
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2002 5:19 pm 
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Rana
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Ganti, I guess you were referring to my post that no more than 5 or 10 Indian DVDs exist in PAL (UK/INDIA

No, I am just saying that all of the crap dvd's may be watched in film mode with HTPC and non-fixed resolution display.
But for the limited number of PAL dvd's, I do not know that before.



Edited By ganti on 1030555535
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ganti
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2002 6:09 pm 
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The Difference of Video Type (FILM/NTSC/PAL/HYBRID)

FILMForced FILM ON := 23.976 fps progressive frame coded on DVD Forced FILM skips the RFF (repeat_first_field flag) of MPEG-2 stream

FILMForced FILM OFF := 29.970 fps 3:2 pull-down (by DVD2AVI) based on orderly RFF RFF sequence behaves as 01010101... every four frames add two fields (one frame) That's the theorem of 23.976/24->29.970/30 fps (4:5) conversion

NTSC/PALForced FILM OFF := 29.970/25.000 fps interlaced or progressive frame coded on DVD all RFF of MPEG-2 stream equal to 0, unnecessary to repeat disable Forced FILM to set correct frame rate, NTSC 29.97 fps or PAL 25 fps

HYBRIDForced FILM OFF:= 29.970 fps irregular pull-down (by DVD2AVI) due to unorderly RFF Try to skip RFF will result in meaningless stuff and cause A/V asynchronism.

· By obeserving the relation between coded and playback frame number, I think you will catch my meaning.
· From another point of view, HYBRID is compounded of both FILM & NTSC and must accomdate to NTSC.
It's impossible to turn HYBRID back to FILM automatically with 100% accuracy cause of irregular pull-down.
What we can do is Inverse Telecine by TMPGEnc automatically and check/correct frame by frame manually.
If you are skilled in Inverse Telecine, you can even turn the NTSC which pull-down from FILM before MPEG-2 encoding
back to FILM also. Most Anime DVDs are encoded in such a way. Indeed it's not a good process of DVD mastering.
A few of Anime DVDs are encoded as FILM, such as Ah! My Goddess! OVA and the movie of CardCaptor Sakura.
· Forced FILM is based on RFF detection and frame decimation/duplication.
NTSC or PAL + Forced FILM ON -> garbage
FILM + Forced FILM ON -> synchronous 23.976 fps flawless FILM (equals to IVTC)
· HYBRID + Forced FILM ON -> synchronous 23.976 fps semi-FILM
Depending on the nature of video sources, unsmooth playback or interlaced frame is possible.
If you can't satisfy with the result, switch to HYBRID + Forced FILM OFF -> IVTC -> FILM
· Another alternative is using adaptive deinterlace filter of TMPGEnc/AviUtl/VirtualDub to deal with such kind of video,
though the quality downgrades and frame rate still remains 29.970 fps that wastes more disk space.
http://arbor.ee.ntu.edu.tw/~jackei/dvd2 ... issue.html

Rana,
I have copied this from the above link. Do you think we can infer some thing from it?



Edited By ganti on 1030558234
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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2002 6:37 pm 
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I can make some sense out of it. It seems logical. But, will have to give it some serious thought to understand it completely. The write-up seems to be from text-book for DVD authoring.

Rana

P.S.
BTW, I will be away tomorrow. I was going to add about EVP Hindi DVDs, but was waiting to clarify Digital Camera question. My coleague at work has clarified it to me now, but now I don't seem to have enough time left today to sum-up my comments on EVP Hindi DVDs. I'll do it first thing Friday morning.
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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2002 9:09 pm 
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Corrected on Sept 10, 2002:


Finally I did succeed in comleting my comments about EVP Progressive/ Interlaced DVDs.

PROGRESSIVE (FILM MODE DVDs):
(These are EVP DVDs by SAI DIGITAL; orig. release; had no subtitles):

1) ABHIMAAN
2) AMAR PREM (My copy has no subtitles and is progressive. sknath said, in one of his posts, that his copy has subtitles and turns up interlaced)
3) ARADHANA (DragunR2 said, and I believe it, that his copy is progressive. My copy is not a genuine EVP and is interlaced)
4) DHARAMVEER
5) KATI PATANG (DVD author unknown)
6) MERA GAON MERA DESH
8) SAAWAN KI GHATA
9) AN EVENING IN PARIS (note that DEI version exists)
10) EVP/ RPG SONGS DVD (contains all songs from 4 EVP-SAI DIGITAL films MGMD,Evening in Paris, Jai Santoshi Maa, Amar Prem)
11) (JAI SANTOSHI MAA never released)

EVP DVDs that aren’t indicated as FILM MODE using FORCE WEAVE OR GREEN LIGHT indicator:
(These EVP DVDs are not by SAI DIGITAL except for may be AJNABEE)
7) PREM KAHANI (Interlaced)
12) AJNABEE (cover doesn’t claim SAI, DVD opening shows it as SAI)
13) AMANUSH (24 to 30)
14) BARSAAT KI EK RAAT
15) KASHMIR KI KALI (Interlaced but excellent print, at par with Deewana Mastana; better than Saawan Ki Ghata)
16) PYAR HI PYAR
17) RAMPUR KA LUKSHMAN (doesn’t play on 99% of DVD players)


Other EVP Hindi DVDs that I haven’t seen:
18) Song DVD which has songs from Dharamveer and other films.
--- I am sure there are more DVDs that I don’t remember the names. In one of the threads in the old forums, we had compiled a list.

#19, # 20 and # 21 added here:
19) Saahib Bibi Aur Ghulaam (DEI version also exists)
20) Raja Jaani (DEI version also exists)
21) Anurodh ??
Added May 2019:
22) Patthar Ke Sanam (Half the segments are Progressive 24 fps, rest are field avaraged & 4% speed up)

I changed the title from “Inerlaced DVDs” to “not indicated as Film Mode” because I noticed SOMETHING NEW.
Note that 24 to 30 frames per second requires every 5th frame to be repeated. In EVP DVDs (original release) that we are assuming as interlaced, EVERY 6th frame is repeated. This implies 25 to 30 frames conversion, and not 24 to 30. Also, there is not even an iota of a flicker when the frame repeats.
One thing I am sure about is that these (interlaced) DVDs are CERTAINLY speed shifted by 4%.
(EXCEPTION: AMAANUSH is not 25 changed to 30. It is 24 changed to 30 as normal for Film to NTSC)

I am reluctant to call them converted from PAL to NTSC as there exists another possibility that these DVDs were filmed by DIGITAL CAMERA set at 25 frames per sec. I confirmed from one of my computer expert colleagues that DIGITAL CAMERA video @ 25 or 30 frames per sec (or any other setting) doesn’t involve PAL or NTSC standard.
Therefore, I am wishfully thinking that these assumed interlaced EVP DVDs are all digital. It is just that our frame re-interleavers are not programmed to handle this un-expected case. In future, may be?

Rana



Edited By rana on 1039015139


Last edited by rana on Sun May 05, 2019 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ganti
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:42 pm 
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Rana,
Quote:
EVP DVDs that aren’t indicated as FILM MODE using FORCE WEAVE OR GREEN LIGHT indicator:
(These EVP DVDs are not by SAI DIGITAL except for may be AJNABEE)

12) AJNABEE (cover doesn’t claim SAI, DVD opening shows it as SAI)
13) AMANUSH
14) BARSAAT KI EK RAAT
15) KASHMIR KI KALI (Interlaced but excellent print, at par with Deewana Mastana; better than Saawan Ki Ghata)
16) PYAR HI PYAR
17) RAMPUR KA LUKSHMAN (doesn’t play on 99% of DVD players)


I am reluctant to accept this argument towards digital camera filming. Did you found some form of details that makes you come to conclusion?
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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2002 2:08 pm 
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I am only wishfully speculating.

These DVDs are definitely 50 half frames or 25 full frames converted to 60 half frames per sec. These are definitely 4% speed shifted.

50 half frames could have been shot on 25 frames per sec digital camera or on 50 half frames PAL camera. What I said was that a possibility exists that perhaps, 25 frames per sec digital camera was used. Reason for this speculation is that KASMIR KI KALI (I don’t remember if other EVP interlaced DVDs are equally good) print is too good to have gone through PAL to NTSC conversion. Another indication is that there is no difference, whatsoever, in the repeated frames from the original frames. Not like EROS AMALL, NTJNH or VS DM where you see some noise or color related differences in the repeated frames.

Also note how much praise has been given to BARSAAT KI EK RAAT (which is identified as interlaced here) in the old forum
http://www.zulm.net/forum....umber=1

BTW, Force weave shows Combing in EVP interlaced discs. Metrodome ASOKA (PAL) shows No Combing with force weave on Power DVD.

Rana

P.S.
Arsh, are you following this thread??

List of EVP Hindi DVDs was compiled in this thread in the old forum
http://www.zulm.net/forum....umber=1
EVP denied Pathar Ke Sanam as their DVD.

CORRECTION:
Pathar Ke Sanam DVD by EVP does exist. It also has trailers of 6 other EVP DVDs including Jai Santoshi Maa. So, it is a genuine EVP DVD. It also implies that most likely EVP's Jai Santoshi Maa DVD does exist somewhere.
END CORRECTION
DEI versions of Saahib Bibi Ghulam and Raja Jaani are also available.



Edited By rana on 1037381808
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:21 pm 
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Yes! rana! Thnx for all GOOD work!! But seems like with HINDI dvds we are going NO WHERE! Just DOWN IN THE DRAIN..recent YRF SUPER HIT?? my foot , venture MDK dvd is latest example!!

When I saw shots pf BARSAT KI EK RAAT vs DHARAM VEER, just on simple EYE BALLING gave me indication that DHARAM VEER was a lot better transfer, that is now PROOVED to be PROG and BKER(interlace! kool! :cool: :baaa: :tounge:

Now! I am still waiting ur input on YES BOSS!! if u have dvd and KATI PATANG(Nath is not in listening/capturing mode these days?? ??? ), if possible?

Thnx again.
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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2002 4:18 pm 
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EVP Kati Patang (orig) has an excellent print and is progressive.

Yes Boss is interlaced. I don't remember how YB compares with DM. Will let you know later.

Rana

Added Later:
Yes Boss is on many DVD brands. One of orig Super Digital version is Progressive (I prefer that) but not necessarily the best.


Last edited by rana on Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sknath
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:57 am 
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Some more info (surprises infact :oh: ) abt Progressive Mode DVDs....

Hamara Dil Aapke Paas Hai ( Eros-B4U ) !!!!! :oh:
Har Dil Jo Pyar Karega (Eros-B4U) !!!!! :oh:
Dulhe Raaja (Videosound) !!!!!! :oh: (but this is a single layered disc)
Love Ke Liye Kuch Bhi Karega (Videosound) !!!!! :oh:
Officer (Samrat/Soven) !!!!! :oh:

They are reported as progressive mode DVds on my DVD player as well as combing artifacts are absent when viewed in a force-weaved mode in PowerDVD !!!
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dvd_pankhaa
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:56 am 
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Quote:
Also note how much praise has been given to BARSAAT KI EK RAAT (which is identified as interlaced here) in the old forum
http://www.zulm.net/forum....umber=1


so BKER is not as good as Dharam Veer
even though BKER dvd by EVP is authored by Sai Digital !
i don't have Dharam Veer to compare it with
but BKER is film mode, right?
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sknath
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:59 am 
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Nope Pankhaa it is not (unfortunately).. EVP have been quite erratic with their DVDs... initially and now they have steadfastly refused to oblige DVD fans like us to switch over to Film mode encoding !!
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sknath
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 1:09 am 
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Hey Pankhaa..mere appearce of combing in the film doesnt indicate that a video course has been used.. A film source may have been used..but during the encoding process, the a$$holes doing the encoding may have screwed up the flag settings such that we get an interlaced encoded output..rather than a progressively encoded output.. This is the case with most recent dvds released by EROS, SPARK and VIDEOSOUND
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