Question for you guys - you're saying that censors rejected a more violent version of Sholay............but Sholay had a U certificate - any idea why it wasn't released with a U/A or A certificate?

BTW, going off on a tangent slightly, anyone know the first film to be given an A certificate in India?

I think "U/A" certification did not exist in 1975. But yes, you have a valid question about the "A" certificate - perhaps the Sippys did not want "A" and therefore compromised with the cuts... merits debate.

The first movie to get an "A" certificate was a movie in which either Helen or Cuckoo featured in a sensual "madbhara" song/dance. I do not recall its name, but this was the reason...

I wrote to Qualiton Imports and they have replied. They say that though they do not distribute such DVDs anymore, at one time they did distribute the DVD and that it was definitely Region 1.

So guys... the Sholay collectors may want to buy this version available at
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/custom ... UTF8&s=dvd for USD30.

I have placed my order and am looking forward to check whether it really is Qualiton version (the artwork says Eros), whether it really is Region 1, and whether it really is 4 1/2 hrs (270 mins) long as claimed by a reviewer on Amazon. It is quite possible that this may be the 162-minute version: but if you are a true fan, it should be worth the risk.
Cheers!

We all are big fans of Sholay and eagerly waiting for your post for the picture quality

Cheers! Amazon tells me it will take 3-4 weeks to get this item and another two weeks for it to reach me in India - so expect my inputs around November 2005
Three cheers for Sholay!!

I have doubts on Amazons ability to "get" this , i suspect they will say its "not available" anymore and even if they do get it shipping to india is atrociously slow .

i had ordered a book from amazon ( from india) and it took 4 months for it to reach my address in india by which time i was in the US !!! - this was 4 years back , so hopefully situation(s) have changed . its usually faster to ask one of your friend to buy it for you and ship it via global priority ( 3-4 days to india !)

Good Luck

I am still waiting for the criterion dvd to turn-up , no harm in day dreaming i guess

I do believe things have improved at Amazon. Sholay is listed on the site as requiring 1-2 weeks to source... this means it is not in stock with them. Other titles that say "ships in 24 hours" are with them.

I am regular buyer from several sites, and my personal experience is that the following are very reliable:

1. http://www.amazon.com - So far, all my orders have reached me safely and securely in India - the cycle time (to India) is within 18 days of them shipping out an item.

2. http://www.amazon.co.uk - Again, not a single order missed till date. They are faster than amazon.com - the cycle time (to India) is within 14 days of them shipping out the item.

3. http://www.yesasia.com - simply the best service in the world in more than one way - their shipping is excellent - within 12 days (to India), their customer service is highly efficient and polite - and it's a pleasure to shop with this Hong Kong based site.

TIP - If in India and buying from Amazon, and if you have an option of shipping to a smaller town... that's the safest (via airmail).

Something really nice happened -- a very good vendor in Ohio shipped me the Eros and Eros-DEI versions very fast (to reach me in Delhi India). I work in Delhi but my real home is in Punjab (India) -- and that's where Ultra DVD, Malaysian VCD, and the Gold VHS are... Cheers! I am now looking forward to the Deepawali holidays when I will get some time to compare the Malaysian, DEI, the Eros, the ULTRA, and the Gold editions of Sholay.

Meanwhile an important feedback related to http://www.zulm.net/modules.php?op=modl ... le&sid=103 -- Here it is shown how much "picture" is cropped on the DEI version when compared to the B4U version...

I quickly scanned my newly received DEI -- and you know what? During the "starring" (or credits) sequence in the beginning, the black bars on DEI are much bigger (above and below the video). As soon as the starring is over and the first scene showing Sanjeev Kumar (Thakur) appears, the black bars become smaller! This most probably means that the DEI starts at the same ratio as seen on 70mm prints in theatre -- without any "left" and "right" cropping (when compared to the theatrical 70mm projections), but soon after starring is over, the DEI is "zoomed" in a little to crop out some area from the left and the right. Good piece of info naa? LOL. BTW, I do not think this zoom-in happens in the ULTRA DVD. I also remember that the very first time Sholay was shown on a TV channel was on Doordarshan way back around 1995. Recently ZEE channel has been showing it frequently. In both Doordarshan and Zee, there was no zoom-in. So it looks like Doordarshan, Zee, Ultra DVD -- all show the same picture area as seen on 70mm (even though they may be different versions of the movie itself).

I also quickly scanned my newly received Eros 204-minute DVD (I won't call it B4U Eros because B4U is not mentioned anywhere on the artwork). There was a very neat "Dolby Digital" message in the beginning (the same as what you see in theatres). While scanning, I noticed something in the sequence where Veeru and Jai are pretending to be dead and dacoits come to collect their bodies. But of course they are alive and they kill all dacoits except one (who then carries their message back to Gabbar). In this sequence is that famous scene of Amitabh and Dharam back-to-back, blazing guns in hands, Amitabh facing and shooting towards the left, Dharam facing and shooting towards the right ---- and this scene was used in posters also. But while Dharam (on the left hand side) is fully visible, Amitabh (on the right side) is cropped!!! -- I distinctly remember that Amitabh too was fully visible when I saw Sholay earlier... but cannot recall whether it was in the theatre or on Ultra DVD or both. What is interesting about this fact is that this means Eros 204-minute version may not actually be fullframe, but pan-and-scan! Either that, or it may be that even in the 204-minute DVD, a little area from the right side is cropped out (when compared to the actual theatrical frame). If it's the latter it's slightly better than if the 204-minute were actually discovered to be pan-and-scan.

I'll repeat why I say so... if even in the so-called fullframe 204-minute version, some picture area is missing from (at least) the right-hand side ----meaning that either the theatrical prints and/or the Ultra DVD has some more picture on (at least) the right-hand side---- then clearly, the 204-minute edition is not showing you the fullframe!



Both (my) DEI and EROS-204-minute are actually produced by EROS London. That means they may have had to pass through the British Film Classification Board -- and this also means that the 204-minute version may be missing 10 seconds (see above) -- even on the edition sold in the U.S.

I say this because my Eros-204-minute version inlay card (artwork on the case) clearly says "Platinum, Made In U.K." on the stem/sleeve (area between back and front), and on the back says something like - "Rights held by Eros London." Does your Eros-B4U-204-minute also say the same?

My DEI says "rights held by Eros London" and "MARKETED BY DEI, U.S." This is important to note because this most probably means that all DEI were doing was market in the U.S. (but not author or make) the London-produced-EROS DVDs, and later EROS started marketing their own DVDs in U.S. So basically, it was Eros itself making all these DVDs... this is what it appears to me.

BTW, both (my) DEI and Eros-204-minute carry this serial number - DVD E 016. What about your DVDs folks?

On the disc itself, my DEI does not have the DEI logo, but has the same artowrk on the disc as seen at http://www.zulm.net/modules.php?op=modl ... le&sid=103

(Wish I could lay my hands on Sipsons and Orson editions too.)



By the way, just like DEI may have simply been marketing London-produced-EROS-Sholay and other London-produced-Eros-DVDs, so would have Qualiton I think...

Let's see

DEI-EROS partenership ended years ago and all DEI-EROS versions avail now are un-official ones but great to be available,
Situation with EROS Director's cut version that came out later too has been discussed in the past.

It is so much fun to read this all over again. Dont stop discussing just because it has been discussed before. The topic of Sholay anyday is welcome.

just to add some more information to this engrossing topic.

I have the book on Amitabh Bachchan "To Be or not to Be" and he clearly says when discussing sholay"

"It was resolved that we would go off to Bangalore to reshoot the SHOLAY climax and the new version would be printed in the labs on Sunday and released all over the country on Monday. If Jai was to live again, he had to be resurrected. Ramesh Sippy argued, that we should hold on and gauge the public verdict till Monday. If the ticket collections didn't improve, then we'd leave for Bangalore on Tuesday. Obviously that Tuesday never came"-AB

On another note, I can't find it in the book right now, but I clearly remember reading that Gabbar was never meant to die in the movie, it was a clash of opinion between the writer and the director.

This book is just a wealth of knowledge on AB's life. Similar stories and info on classics like SHAKTI, SHARAABI, Muqaddar ka Sikandar, etc.

I am extremely sorry if I have written anything that may be confusing and/or inaccurate. Rana, can you tell me exactly what all is "upside down"? Thx

My point here is that even the EROS-204-minute version appears to be lacking some image from the right-hand side. On the EROS-204-minute-version (which appears to be "fullframe"), check the scene where Amitabh and Dharam are shown back-to-back -- guns in hand, shooting the dacoits who'd come to collect their bodies (after Sachin's killing and the village gathering scene) -- you'll see (even on the EROS-204-minute version) that though Dharam is fully visible, Amitabh is not---he appears to be cropped, his arms are not entirely visible. Since Amitabh is facing the right and shooting in that direction, and since this is the scene that appears "cut" on the right-hand-side, it may be that the entire EROS-204-minutes transfer is framed in such a way that some portion from the right-hand side is cut. (I'm hoping to soon compare the "right hand sides" of the ULTRA DVD--because it is said to have the 2.35:1 aspect ratio, the EROS-204-minute DVD, and the Malaysian VCD. The DEI version, as you rightly say, is already cropped, and therefore would not feature in this comparison. But like I previously said, even the DEI starting sequence appears to be 2.35:1 as long as the starring is shown, but soon after starring, the DEI appears to be cropped/zoomed in to 1.85:1---the proof is the different sizes of the black bars in the DEI transfer--bigger bars in the "starring" sequence and smaller bars in the rest of the DEI movie.)

My other point was http://www.zulm.net/modules.php?op=modl ... le&sid=103 -- where it is said that the DVD author for one of the editions is DEI ---When I read the descriptions on the back-cover of the DEI version, I realized that DEI were only "marketing" Sholay in the U.S. -- meaning distributing discs of Sholay in the U.S, but not "authoring" the discs or "making" them. The "making" of even the DEI was done by Eros London. Later, when DEI-Eros went separate ways, Eros U.S. started marketing the DVDs... this is what I think happened, and if true, we should make corrections at http://www.zulm.net/modules.php?op=modl ... le&sid=103

For Harry_Rasul - yes what you say is what I also remember. Do post your notes if and when you find any fact that says Gabbar was not meant to die.

For CrazyDVDBuyer - yep, Sholay is always "repeat value" -- even in discussions LOL

My small contribution to this thread:

Ultra DVD shot:



Eros DVD



BTW, Eros DVD quality is a bit worse than the actual DVD - that shot is from a ripped & shrunk DVD. But the original was still crap.

Bhasker, it's a big contribution.
It's good that you have Ultra, as well as, EROS 204 min version. I'm sure you have DEI-EROS version too.

The shots you captured are from two different frames and hence don't tell conclusively if width coverage is the same or not, in the two versions.

If you could repost these screen caps from exactly the same frame, will disclose a lot. Even if you don't post DEI-EROS shot, it's OK as we all most likely have it and can see ourself. We already know that DEI-EROS version has about 17% cut from all 4 sides from the EROS 204 min version.

-----------------------

As speculated elsewhere, there still is disagreement whether Sholay was shot on 1.66:1 or 1.45:1 frame??
One thing is for sure, whatever was shot, was cut from top and bottom to make it a 70mm widescreen presentation (It ws blown up to 70mm film). In the 70s, some/ many non widescreen theatres did get to see 4:3 presentation where additional picture at the top and bottom was visible.

I've replaced the screenshot in the above post with a better one - it's not perfect, but I'm using Power Cinema at the moment, and I can't seem to find a step function on there

I don't actually have a copy of the Eros DEI Sholay - I didn't want to buy a copy of this until a decent DVD came along................but then I ended up getting the Ultra DVD for around Rs 200..............then I realised that the Ultra DVD has no subtitles, and my Scottish housemate wants to watch the film, so I rented the Eros DVD and copied it!!