I don't know what you mean by politics not mixing with art. Art is inherently political. Anything which binds people together is political and people should realise that.

The confusion is between art and entertainment. Art is not necessarily entertainment and vice versa.

armaan, i have not watched LOC, Border, or any other of those "same old anti-pak" war films as you call them, but i find it hard to believe that Lakshya has the "same plot" as these two movies since i don't think this film was about war as much as it was about hrithik's character finding his identity. although i was disappointed with the film as a whole (i blame javed akhtar; farhan can do no wrong ) , the film still had a maturity that 95% of hindi movies lack.




you have to distinguish between "anti-islam" and "anti-pakistani". while Lakshya can be interpreted as anti-pakstani, i don't think it can be interpreted as anti-islam.

Aryan, not here to have a complex debate as to what is art, politics, or entertainment. Just that its disgraceful if bollywood is going to be used a political tool to make propganda films... There must be other more appropriate means of promoting such hate (or peace) propganda. And, patriotism hardly needs promoting in my opinion, as the very concept is so detached from humanitarian values.

Theon, true there is emphasis on developing Hrithik character, I just found the war part boring and repititive! DEV, dealing with Hindu-Muslim relations in India was far better in my opinion. It was entertaining, and touched profound emotional, philosophical and political issues...

armaan what do u expect them to show a pakistani point of view where they are in the light and the indians are in the dark?

I think you missed my point. I was saying I rather they not keep drilling the same topic over and over again. I am not expecting them to show the Pakistani point of view favourably. But these films would command more respect, if they were not narrated with such hyped personal emotions. Good cinema should leave the viewers to make their own judgements.

Examples have been given by members that its perfectly acceptable for Pakistan to make anti-indian films, and India to make anti-pakistani films. Whilst I dont support the former either, Bollywood reaches every corner of the world unlike regional films (ie Pakistanis) and therefore it has an obligation to look at events from national and international perspective, rather than feed juvenile mentality that can't see beyond its own viewpoint.

I have managed to see the film on cinema (along with Girlfriend and Deewar) and to be honest I found the film avarage. It is technically well shot but the screenplay wasn't anything special. In fact some of the moments in the second half was lagging in places (same problem with Farhan's last movie Dil Chatha Hai). He must learn to put his trust in his editor...and allow him to cut/trim scenes. Performances was good, and there are some nice moments...but some isn't enough to be classed as a good movie.

There are better films on the subject of war in Indian cinema...

Out of 10 I would give it 7

I think, it was LOC and LAKSHYA too close together that spoilt the broth and also, peoples expectations to get another feel good film from farhan!

Lets hope farhan after this set back does not go SLB way churning HDDCS and DEVDAS to make money!! as audience only appreciate this kind of stuff!

Well first of all I saw Lakshya today and thought it was good, but not great. It was better than most other crap from India recently. I think it may be a bit too serious for some audiences but is a refreshing break from the usual.

The similarities with LOC is basically that it was the same war, shot in the same locations, with the same uniforms. I honestly don't think there was much 'paki-bashing' in this films, especially when compared to LOC, The Hero, Gadar, etc. This was tame compared to them.

I don't think this film is a political tool to promote hatred (the hatred pretty much already exists among certain people). The film simply shows a boy who searches for a purpose in life and finds it in the army. He then ends up fighting Operation Vijay in the Kargil war. Now let's face it, the soldiers on both sides don't like each other, so I'd rather see a realistic portrayal of soldiers, than some cheesy crap saying how they shouldn't be fighting their brothers on the other side and "let's go kill those evil politicians, instead". It's better to show what it's like (though you can never get realistc enough) than to show something false. Why is this also not art? A realistic portrayal is art. If you're referring to art films then that'll never catch on among the masses. They're too boring.

Why not make war films? India makes Gangster films, love stories, revenge films, thrillers, teen comedies, sexploitation, Police dramas, historical, so why not War films? There certainly is a demand. I understand the subject matter may be sensitive to some, but they have the choice NOT to go see it. Forget the politicians, films should address certain issues.

My comments did not apply to LAKSHYA specifically, but to a huge number of a films that are either anti-pakistani or anti-islamic. But since you are enjoying such films too much, there is nothing more I have to add. So just enjoy....

And, no... regular bollywood filmgoers dont have a choice not to see them, as too many are being made, and inevitable you end up seeing one or the other!

And, yes... I still think such themes have strong potential to be used as political tool to increase hatred... With the exception of those films that show a balanced viewpoint, these films reflect the corruption of art to serve a political or a patriotic purpose.

We just have to agree to differ on this, as you are drilling the same comments over and over again (just like these films!), and nothing new is being added with regard to this matter.

TOPIC CLOSED

And now guys back to the reviews of LAKSHYA itself please....

I generally stay out of any threads discussing this topic, but I think some people here (obviously of a certain national background) can't seem to digest the truth. Lakshya is a not a great film but is most certainly a mature and good film. The film simply states and shows the facts as they actually happened, only dramatizing them for cinematic reasons. The film is not a Paki bashing film and is most certainly not anti Islam, as some here have tried to imply. Can anyone deny that there is a LOC and that the Pakistani soldiers crossed that line and took up positions in not only 'no mans land' but also in areas that have always been on the Indian side of the LOC. Kargil happened, and it has been acknowledged not only by the entire International community but also Pakistan. So what's wrong with it being depicted in films? As for the few anti Pak comments in the film, would you rather have the director show that Indian soldiers make glowing, praising comments about their adversary in a war like situation. Give me a break. I think some of you need to chill or simply not watch these films if you don't like them. One more thing, regarding watching the same plot over and over again, history does remain the same no matter how many times you look at it By the way it's not that I don't agree with the fact that there are a few films that do unnecessarily harp upon the anti pak theme. LOC, also a film regarding the same incident in history was in my opinion a bad film with nothing more than a poor and unnecesary presentation of Indian patriotism. But Lakshya is by far a much superior and honest film.

My comments did not apply to LAKSHYA specifically, but to a huge number of a films that are either anti-pakistani or anti-islamic. But since you are enjoying such films too much, there is nothing more I have to add. So just enjoy....

And, no... regular bollywood filmgoers dont have a choice not to see them, as too many are being made, and inevitable you end up seeing one or the other!

And, yes... I still think such themes have strong potential to be used as political tool to increase hatred... With the exception of those films that show a balanced viewpoint, these films reflect the corruption of art to serve a political or a patriotic purpose.

We just have to agree to differ on this, as you are drilling the same comments over and over again (just like these films!), and nothing new is being added with regard to this matter.

TOPIC CLOSED

And now guys back to the reviews of LAKSHYA itself please....

I agree.
The most problematic moments in
the film concerning Pakistani bashing, patriotism, propaganda
are these
spoilers following...


- the scene with the dead Pakistani soldiers (the Indian army
is morally better than the Pakistani army)
- the hand grenade jai hind scene
- the scene where Pakistanis shoot
a helpless Indian officer

The pakistanis are shown as quite
clever. Not all of them are name-
and faceless gun fodder.
The film is not critical of the
Indian army. Is there any film
that is? Would it pass the censors?
Lakshya should not be put on the
same level as films like LOC or
Gaddar. That's not fair. Neither
is a comparison with Western anti
war anti establishment films. India
is not ready for such films. They
would be commercial suicide. The
day India is ready there will be
such films.

It pretty much looks like your comments were directed at Laksha as you stated it's anti-paki and one-sided. I wouldn't put Lakshya in the same boat as LOC, Gadar, The Hero, etc. But I guess a pakistani viewer wouldn't like the subject matter dealt with in Lakshya.



Sorry I totally disagree with you. Everyone has a choice of films to see, they're not forced to watch them. For example the 'erotic thrillers' like Jism, Murder and now Girlfriend are films that most young people would avoid watching with their parents as it would be uncomfortable to do so. I know some people who avoid those sorts of films altogether!
People can make up their own minds whether or not to see it...reviews are available and through word of mouth you'll hear about it. I believe viewers roughly know the type of film they're gonna be watching beforehand. The last film I could think of that could be classed as anti-paki was LOC and that was 6 months ago!

We really ARE here to have a complex debate about art, politics and entertainment. These are things which have a profound impact on large groups of people and all of these have the power to change people's opinions and ideas.

If the government funded such films and propagated patriotism, it would be quite another matter. Nationalist sentiments inherent in citizens (audiences and filmmakers) which prompts the making of such films is not propaganda. However, I am not a fan of 'patriotic films' myself - as all too easily the theme can be exploited as a cheap shot to gain popularity.



Are you talking about some Tamil film?

Sorry to interrupt, but on the subject of a "war film" that actually progresses to something positive. I would adamantly argue that Sivan's ASOKA is one of(if not, THE BEST) War film made in commercial Indian cinema.