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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:26 pm 
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Sony's PS3: Expensive and Complex

Caught up in this whole mess of Blu-ray vs. HD DVD is the role of Sony's PlayStation 3 (PS3), set to launch this fall and with a Blu-ray player ... all at the low-low price of either $499 or $599, depending on your love of an HDMI port. With Blu-ray players costing significantly more than HD DVD players, and the PS3 to be more expensive than the Xbox 360, I guess we shouldn't be totally surprised that PS3 games will ... drum-roll please ... be expensive.

"Generally speaking, over the past twelve years or so, there has been a consumer expectation that disc-based games are maybe US $59 on the high end to US $39 on the low end," says Kaz Hirai, Sony Computer Entertainment America president, according to gamesindustry.biz. "If it becomes a bit higher than US $59, don't ding me, but, again, I don't expect it to be US $100."

I hate to bring up this VHS/Betamax analogy (especially since every non-tech media outlet insists on using it when discussing the format war), but you would think that Sony completely forgot what happened. Many would argue that Beta was actually better than VHS, but VHS won out because it was more accessible to consumers.

We tech guys would love to think that run-of-the-mill consumers would spend a lot of money on the "better" technology, but it isn't about that -- it's about price and availability. Will someone off the street care that Blu-ray can hold more information that HD DVD? Not if it costs twice as much and the performance isn't much better.

Analysts are predicting that the complexities of the PS3 (the "multimedia device" in the home, according to company exec Phil Harrison) will hinder the number of units from initially making it to the market, says Next Generation. "While Sony has certain manufacturing advantages at the end of the day, this is a very complex process, and they’re going to be limited to the yields that they can come up with," says American Technology Research analyst P.J. McNealy.

For more Tech Today, including news on Verizon's fiber plans, Apple's stock options, and Vonage the Dog, check out
http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/14010.html

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Jason Unger
http://www.cepro.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:37 am 
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arsh wrote:
Just waiting to catch a deal on HD A1, as X1 is essentialy same heavier unit! as soon as I find below $400, I'll get it!


arsh baajhi, I will paypal you $2. will you get the Toshiba HD-A1? :D

http://www.ecost.com/ecost/ecsplash/sho ... 707060.asp


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:42 pm 
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Yuvan wrote:
arsh wrote:
Just waiting to catch a deal on HD A1, as X1 is essentialy same heavier unit! as soon as I find below $400, I'll get it!


arsh baajhi, I will paypal you $2. will you get the Toshiba HD-A1? :D

http://www.ecost.com/ecost/ecsplash/sho ... 707060.asp


thnx bro, point noted!!! send ur check over! 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:02 pm 
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Location: vancouver, canada
on the news it says that blue ray is already losing because it costs more then hd but they said sony is planning to drop the price down dramaticlly ( i wounder how much)


Last edited by izzy on Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:44 pm 
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Location: vancouver, canada
damn that sucks i will just wait 4 the 2in1 combo


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:18 am 
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why stop at 3? heee heee

anyway, arsh. I will reimburse(sp) you after your purchase :p show me the invoice. when are you taking the leap?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:26 pm 
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Location: God's Country!
Here is something to consider with all the confusion between the two formats. The market will be slow at first partly due to that confusion and the added costs and time to retailers training sales staff, explaining to consumers the difference between the formats and what type of disc they play. For now consumers are more content to stick by the 9 year old DVD technology which by the way have a market of about 85 percent and a price tag for a player as low as $50.00. This is the VHS/Betamax war all over again. On till the dust settles, those that wishing to purchase HD TVs can choose video-on-demand from their cable provider or download high -definition video from the internet. The Blu-ray format has the backing of of many manufacturers e.g Apple, Philips, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Matsushita and numerous others. While HD DVD major backers are Toshiba, NEC and Time Warner. Also Blu-ray have the backing of some Major Hollywood studios. From what I understand SONY is set to lauch the PS3 with a built in Blu-ray player for about $499.00 sometime in November.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:47 pm 
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First 4x Blu-ray Burner Hit the Shelves in Taiwan ...

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/De ... wsId=17440

..only US$923 :shock:

Ali


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:50 pm 
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Thomson’s New Film Grain Technology™ as adopted by HD-DVD is here too...

http://www.thomson.net/EN/Home/Press/Pr ... 9fb03ccea6

Sample...

Image

Ali


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:34 pm 
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ali wrote:
First 4x Blu-ray Burner Hit the Shelves in Taiwan ...

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/De ... wsId=17440

..only US$923 :shock:

Ali


player for $1500 burner for $900 :shock: :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:35 pm 
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ali wrote:
Thomson’s New Film Grain Technology™ as adopted by HD-DVD is here too...

http://www.thomson.net/EN/Home/Press/Pr ... 9fb03ccea6

Sample...

Image

Ali


The horror, the horror...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:44 pm 
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Digital Noise Addition?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:15 am 
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DragunR2 wrote:
Digital Noise Addition?


you don't like additional detail? :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:45 am 
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Is it possible we'll get DNR artifacts, plus the grain introduced with this Film Grain Technology?

ali wrote:
Thomson’s New Film Grain Technology™ as adopted by HD-DVD is here too...


http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6350773.html

SMPTE approves Thomson technology
Film Grain process part of HD DVD specs but not Blu-ray
By Paul Sweeting 7/7/2006

JULY 7 | Technicolor-parent Thomson has been given a stamp of approval for a technology to make high-definition video look more like conventional film during playback.

The Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers last week formally adopted the technology by publishing the system’s specs on its Web site as a “registered disclosure document,” the engineering equivalent of the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.

The process, called Film Grain Technology, is already in use in HD DVD players and playback software. But the endorsement by SMPTE paves the way for broader adoption as high-def video becomes more entrenched both in the movie production process and home entertainment formats.

“Thanks to our relationship with Technicolor, we have access to a lot of people in Hollywood, including many of the top ‘golden eyes’ at the studios,” the head of Thomson’s Corporate Research Center, Jeff Cooper, said. “We were very happy to be able to fool several of the top people in the field, who couldn’t tell the difference between original film and the video using our technique.”

Typically, the “grain” that naturally occurs in film emulsions is removed in transferring a film to video, giving video a somewhat “flat” or artificial look compared with film.

Thomson’s Film Grain Technology inserts a simulated grain pattern into a video signal before display to restore some of the richness and texture lost during the transfer.

“With standard-definition and ordinary TV displays, you can’t really resolve grain, so there was no point in trying to keep it,” Cooper said. “But with HDTV sets, you have a device that can preserve and display the original grain if you can get it there. Although it’s still a problem to get the original grain to the display, we can preserve the look of the original so what you’re seeing looks more like a projected film image.”

Unlike actors and other solid objects in a film scene, the grain pattern in film is random from one frame to another. That makes its difficult to encode using standard compression schemes, which rely on predicting the content of one frame as much as possible from the frame before.

Without such predictability, the grain pattern for each frame would have to be encoded separately, which would consume much of the bandwidth or storage capacity available with current video formats, even given the increased capacity of HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc.

As a result, grain is usually removed to leave bits available for image detail.

Although grain is still removed in the Thomson process, FGT developers used mathematical models of particular film grains to create simulated grain patterns.

The simulated pattern is then pumped back into the video just before it’s displayed.

“People have been modeling film grain and developing simulations for years, so there was a large body of knowledge to draw on there,” Cooper said. “The key was to come up with ways of modeling that could accommodate all, or at least many, of the variety of film stocks that directors use to achieve the effect they want, and then make it simple enough to implement in consumer devices.”

With SMPTE approval, the FGT also is likely now to find a role in the production process as well, Cooper said. “A lot of movies today are a combination of traditional film and CGI, which does not contain grain. This is a convenient way to give the entire film a consistent look.

Thomson proposed the technology to the DVD Forum in early 2005, which adopted it as a mandatory feature of the HD DVD specifications.

The technology also was offered to the Blu-ray Disc Assn. but was not adopted for that format.

Cooper declined to comment on the reasons behind the Blu-ray group’s decision.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:58 pm 
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How abt the new format/laser can read both HDDVD and Blue?

BTW!! got my Toshiba player HD A1 for $450 total!! Hefty machine!
Played back Serenity HD DVD!! PQ was awesome, close to HD Film broadcast on directv! But still I think format needs go long ways to become successful, acceptable in each/every household!

Just my 2 cents!!


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