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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2023 12:09 pm 
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We have discussed MNJ Unpublished song 'Mere Alibaba' before and wondered where was it to be in the film.

This U-Tube video caption clearly says it was for Part 1, Chapter 3. (Padmini chapter).
(Look at 80 min of 7 hour video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JMOJAzH7Ww&t=21864s


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 11:53 am 
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rana wrote:
Youtube has one video explaining all the verses of the song Jaane Kahan Gaye Vo Din.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMxbWzhlNws


The song - 'Jaane Kahan Gaye Vo Din' is credited to Hasrat Jaipuri. But, as mentioned in the video, Shelly Shailendra - son of Shailendra of Hasrat-Shailendra duo said in an interview with Ameen Sayani that it was by mistake or for commercial reasons that Hasrat is credited as lyricist. He said, the MUKHRA of this song was penned by his father but he died before he could finish it. Shelly Shailendra completed the song and showed it to Raj Kapoor who accepted it. The lyrics that are not filmed clearly show the state of mind of a son who just lost his father.

Here is the comment describing this (In Hindi-Devnagri script):
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMxbWzhlNws
@shivlehri2358
@shivlehri2358
2 years ago
एक बात नोट करे। इस गीत का मुखड़ा शैलेंद्र ने लिखा था, हसरत जयपुरी ने नहीं। शैलेन्द्र के चले जाने के बाद परिवार की स्थिति बहुत बिगड़ गई। तब शैलेन्द्र के बेटे शैली शैलेन्द्र ने राजकपूर सा से कहा कि यह गीत हम पूरा करना चाहेंगे। क्योंकि हमारी स्थिति भी ऐसी ही है।राजकपूर सा ने हाँ भर दी। तब शैली शैलेन्द्र ने गीत को एक ही रात में पूरा कर दिया। राज सा को दिखाया। उन्हें यह बहुत पसंद आया। उन्होंने शंकर जय किशन को दे दिया। और मशहूर ही नहीं अजर अमर गीत बन गया। ध्यान दीजिये। इसमें साया ही अपने साथ था ,,,में साये से मतलब स्वर्गीय शैलेन्द्र से है, जिन्हें उनके पुत्र पुकार रहे है। अपनी नजर में आजकल दिन भी अंधेरी रात है ,का मतलब बहुत ही मुश्किल भरे समय और हालातो से है जो शैलेन्द्र के चले जाने के बाद उनके परिवार पर गुजर रहे थे। प्रमाण के लिए अमीन सायानी को खुद शैली शैलेन्द्र का इंटरव्यू है जो सा रे गा मा बिनाका गीत माला कारवाँ में मौजूद हैं। आप खुद सुन सकते हैं। रही बात फ़िल्म में नाम की। तो शैलेन्द्र की जगह हसरत जयपुरी का नाम दिया जाना कोई व्यावसायिक मजबूरी रही होगी।


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 7:22 pm 
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One more Antra, even missing from 250 min version, found on youtube.

Out of the 2 Antras mentioned here, I saw one on youtube. It's not as much as finding a new antra, but it's identifying it. Most likely, this antra has been available here and there and perhaps even I have it in my VHS, but noticing it is the difficult part.

This is the 2nd of 2 Antras that are not generally available in video:
Aaj Hawaayen Mose Karein Jora Jori
(Ud Jaana Chaahey Le Ke Saari Ko Mori) -2
Saari Ko Mori
In Hawaaon Se Bacha Baalmaa
Hai More Ang Lag Jaa Baalma
Main Akeli Piya, Lei Ke Mora Jiya
Aise Mein Tu Naa Jaa


But, thhis antra ends with these 2 repetitive lines, but is not in the video:
More Ang Lag Jaa Baalmaa
Hai More Ang Lag Jaa Baalma

Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvcGEAQsYM0
Look at 3:00 min

Unfortunately, this missing antra video adds mere 20 seconds to the film length.

RAGS: you mentioned recently, that some videos insert film clips from here and there to match audio. Here it does not seem to be the case.

As mentioned in one of the youtube somewhere, that for another famous song, Jaane Kahan Gaye Vo Din, only the antras that were in the film were in the LP. This implies that for other songs too, only those lyrics that were in the film were in the LP. Meaning: These 2 missing antras in 'Ang Lag Ja Balma' must have been filmed, one of which, is in the link above.




rana wrote:
Muz wrote:
Hey - the song Ang lag ja balma is about 9 minutes 25 Seconds long (including a long musical intro). There is at least 1 extra verse and a lot of extra music in the song. Now that I am watching the DVD again the song seems really short (about 5 mins).


Here is the breakdown of what's in the audio CD and not in the VHS/ DVD etc:

1) End of dialog "Mere Pyar Ko Khel Mat Samjho" to Start of singing "Kaare Kaare Badra" :

45 sec extra in CD. (22 sec before and 23 sec after the yordling "a a a a a" in the middle.

2) Then, till end of verse 1: No difference.

3) After the end of verse 1, music seems to abruptly change in DVD while in CD it's smooth connection to song continuation. Lyrics from the missing scene are:
Quote:
Barkha Ne Chhede Aise Sur Mastaane
(Ghadi Ghadi Tan Mora Laga Balkhaane) -2
Lagaa Balkhaane
Mujhko Ye Kya Ho Gya Baalmaa
Hai Mose Ang Lag Jaa Baalmaa
Ho - o - o - Main Akeli Jiya
Le Ke Mora Jiya
Aise Main Tu Naa Jaa
(More Ang Lag Jaa Baalmaa) - 2

music

Aaj Hawaayen Mose Karein Jora Jori
(Ud Jaana Chaahey Le Ke Saari Ko Mori) -2
Saari Ko Mori
In Hawaaon Se Bacha Baalmaa
Hai More Ang Lag Jaa Baalma
Main Akeli Piya, Lei Ke Mora Jiya
Aise Mein Tu Naa Jaa
More Ang Lag Jaa Baalmaa
Hai More Ang Lag Jaa Baalma


32 sec of music and then Paglaa ---- verse starts that's in the DVD. This last verse ending the song sequence, there is extra 21 sec in CD (mostly music).

So, basically, 1st verse is complete and the last verse, which is basically a short verse plus song ending lines, is complete in the DVD/ VHS. The middle two long verses (basically most of the song) are missing in DVD/ VHS etc.

Total missing = 268 sec (45 sec @ start of the song, 202 sec of middle two verses and 21 sec @ the song ending.)

---------------------------
I recall a friend of mine, who saw this film in the 1st week, commenting, "how could the censors pass this scene" referring to Ang Lag Jaa song sequence. When I saw this film 2-3 months after release, I didn't find anything wrong with this song. Perhaps it was this sequence that had been cut off by the time I saw this film ??
Quote:
Aaj Hawaayen Mose Karein Jora Jori
(Ud Jaana Chaahey Le Ke Saari Ko Mori) -2
Saari Ko Mori
In Hawaaon Se Bacha Baalmaa
Hai More Ang Lag Jaa Baalma


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 8:13 am 
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One may correct me, again, if I am wrong; but having assessed the above linked video, and other versions of the song (taken from the DVD and BD rips), my judgement is that this lyrical portion has been edited on to the part that originally picturizes the Antara (instrumental interlude) portion.

First off, there is no lip-sync in the part - whereas the rest of the song (Ang Lag Ja Balma 'Mukhda' & the Pagla Yeh Man Mora 'Antara' part) has proper lip-sync.

Second, the beginning of the 'newly inserted' Antara has been rather stitched without proper cohesion - abrupt fade-ins and fade-out, rendering the melody slightly clumsy and not in structure with the CD and vinyl version of the song. To me, it yet again sounds like a random 'gimmicky' edit made to excite nostalgia buffs into believing it was an unseen version of the song.

Lastly, the picture quality on this clip is the BD version, whereas the sound is very crisp and clear - unlike the BD version, which to my ears, had a bass-heavy and somewhat muffled treatment. All the more reason to believe that this is another re-muxing job done using a vinyl audio source by some YouTube enthusiast.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 5:44 pm 
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Ragz wrote:
One may correct me, again, if I am wrong; but having assessed the above linked video, and other versions of the song (taken from the DVD and BD rips), my judgement is that this lyrical portion has been edited on to the part that originally picturizes the Antara (instrumental interlude) portion.

First off, there is no lip-sync in the part - whereas the rest of the song (Ang Lag Ja Balma 'Mukhda' & the Pagla Yeh Man Mora 'Antara' part) has proper lip-sync.

Second, the beginning of the 'newly inserted' Antara has been rather stitched without proper cohesion - abrupt fade-ins and fade-out, rendering the melody slightly clumsy and not in structure with the CD and vinyl version of the song. To me, it yet again sounds like a random 'gimmicky' edit made to excite nostalgia buffs into believing it was an unseen version of the song.

Lastly, the picture quality on this clip is the BD version, whereas the sound is very crisp and clear - unlike the BD version, which to my ears, had a bass-heavy and somewhat muffled treatment. All the more reason to believe that this is another re-muxing job done using a vinyl audio source by some YouTube enthusiast.


This video makes no claim of rare video clip. It could have been spliced.
But, one thing is for sure, there is extra 20 sec of distinct video frames that's not in other videos. It'll take some effort to watch different versions but I suspect, some video frames from one source and some from other, will add up not just 20 sec but a bit more. I'm talking of video/film frames, not audio synch.

Also 'Aaj Hawaaein Karein Zora Zori', is positioned perfectly with the video.

(Correction: Found by Ragz in next posts, extra 22 sec is footage pasted from elsewhere to go with audio)


Last edited by rana on Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:27 pm 
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It will definitely take some effort, but I'm sure it will be worthwhile so that there will remain some more transparency. Let me make an attempt at breaking it down, hopefully as error free as it can be.

Taking the video that you linked, rana saheb:

From the beginning of the video to all footage incl. Raj Kapoor walks away from the hut, Padmini watches him over and then lies down in despair - - starts singing - all identical as on the BD version.

Then, we approach the portion where the singing up until the first Antara music is complete - all identical as on the BD version.

NOW, THE DISCREPANCIES:
1) 2:58 of the video - the shot on this video begins with an edited appearance - Padmini's movement has a ghostly effect - edit causing video to skip/jump several frames ahead.
In terms of audio, the Antara music, perfectly tuned and structured otherwise, it half-cut, also begins with an odd fade in.

2) 3:07 of the video - very interesting!
The shot is of Padmini struggling with her cloth in the breeze - lyric is apt for the moment.
However, the original version features (BD/DVD version) the intense music piece as part of the Antara - suggesting the music piece has been REPLACED BY vocal portion 'Aaj Hawaaein Karein Zora Zori'

3) 3:23 of the video - the outlier! While this looks like a brand new shot that has been added, it is not.
It is a repeat of the portion that appears at 4:36 in the same upload. (about 22 segment that is copied and shown twice)

4) 3:45 of the video - this is the portion which should have come after 3:23, in place of the above mentioned (duplicated) 22 second shot.
In fact, it should feature a longer shot of Padmini walking, with her side angle shot as she continues to struggle with nature's forces.
Again, in terms of audio, the Antara music, perfectly tuned and structured otherwise, it almost fully cut, also begins with an odd fade in, leading to the vocal portion "Pagla Yeh Man Mora" (this Antara is the first one in the BD version).

5) Until 4:36, there is proper lip-sync for the "Pagla Yeh Man Mora" Antara.
After that, the vocals for "Kaare Kaare Badra" commence again, when it should be an instrumental portion (as evidenced by the BD/DVD versions).
This vocal portion continues until the part where Padmini finds Raj Kapoor sitting towards the end of the pipes. (Part of this segment is what is duplicated to accommodate the "Aaj Hawayen" Antara, as mentioned in point #3)
The part where she sits next him and sighs "Ang Lag Ja", has perfect lip-sync - suggesting it is correctly structured, as on the DVD/BD versions.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:39 pm 
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Wow! That's quite an effort. It takes time to compare frame by frame and second by second. You did it.
You must be set up for this kind of comparisons.

So finally, still no new video footage.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:57 pm 
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On youtube, search for 'Rassian Bollywood' (Note spelling Rassian, not Russian). You will find lots of Bollywood material. I've been using it to discover any longer versions of the films.

Unfortunately, I haven't found Russian Mera Naam Joker (thousands of other films are in there). If any old Russian MNJ found, I expect it to have some footage, not in present day DVD & Blu Ray. Specially, Russia related content.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:09 am 
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It's really not a lot that I have done (especially compared to your efforts in comparing multiple MNJ, Shaan, Sangam DVD/VHS versions). Just have a lot of free time on hand as I am transitioning jobs.

Making a leap from a client servicing agency to a corporate communications (managerial) role at India's leading life insurance companies. :D I am very excited to begin!


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