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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:04 pm 
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REGION All
CASE Keep Case
DISTRIBUTOR Moserbaer-Bombino
VIDEO FORMAT (ntsc/pal), AR, and WHETHER ANAMORPHIC NTSC Full Screen 4:3
AUDIO 2.0 Stereo
SUBTITLES English
RUNTIME 162 mins
EXTRAS None

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:25 pm 
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rana sahab's fav film! :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:53 am 
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Zoran009 wrote:
rana sahab's fav film! :D


LOL really?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:43 pm 
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sengh_15 wrote:
Zoran009 wrote:
rana sahab's fav film! :D


LOL really?


Got hold of Moserbaer-Bombino DVD and can confirm, it's still my fav film for sure. Among Prince-Princess films you won't find this film's beauty, music, glamour, comedy, story, in any other film. Most importantly, music and beauty. Sadhna looked prettiest in this film (and in 'Ishq Par Zor Nahin' as well). I would love to see a Blu Ray of this film. A direct film to PAL or a direct Film to NTSC, too will be OK. For sure I would like to see a better print than has been available so far.

Esquire VHS had as good a print as normal for those days (pretty good actually). EROS DVD was from the Esquire VHS source. Mosebaer-Bombino print is slightly better but still from the same source (perhaps from mater tape, instead of VHS). (As I recall, Esquire material went mainly to WEG/ Bombino and some legally/ illegally to EROS). All three prints are thoroughly field averaged.

Film Length:
Film 1964 CC shows 4907 meters which is 179 min. (Combining existing videos, we have 175 min 30 sec film time).

Esquire VHS: 168 min (175 min film time).

EROS DVD is 165 min 16 sec (172 min film time @ 4% speed up). Colors are good but some noise due to non-optimum tracking of VHS playback.

Moserbaer-Bombino DVD: 162 min 17 sec (169 min film time). Colors and PQ are better than EROS.

Not much is missing in any of the prints. Just a few frames missing here and there.

----------------------------------

Raajkumar was written by Manmohan Desaai. Manmohan Ddesaai later made Dharamveer on the same Prince-Princess theme. Same combo of Beauty, Music and princely storyline. Dharamveer too is my fav film, but I like film Rajkumar more.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:36 am 
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Continuing from
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=867&p=109233#p109233
rana wrote:
pardesi wrote:
In regard to Rajkumar (Shammi Kapoor) by Eros, this is one of the worst dvds I have ever had the misfortune to own. Avoid this dvd like a plague. Wait for someone to rerelease this dvd with a cleaner print and a better transfer.

Rajkumar (Shammi Kapoor, Sadhna):
Moserbaer version, released later on, is a bit better than EROS. Ultra too has a nice print on youtube. But, the ultimate eye candy print, even for just 3 songs, is the youtube 4K posting of 3 songs (16.5 min). I wish, rest of the movie too is transferred to 4K.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7-d-7EWMHU (Aa Jaa AAee Bahaar song)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQTQ_aUWX8s (Tumne Kisi Ki Jaan Ko )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGZMtdApcrQ (Tumne Pukaara Aur Hum Chale Aaye)




FINALLY A GOOD PRINT OF RAJKUMAR (on Amazon Prime).

My fav film Shammi Kapoor - Sadhna's Rajkumar never had a decent DVD/ Blu Ray / VHS. Many other films of that era got good print DVDs but this Rajkumar did not catch anyone's attention to release in a good print.

2-3 Yrs back, finally saw a few songs (3) of the film, not only in good print but excellent print on youtube. (Search Rajkumar 4K). Recently, a fourth song also was posted, in 4K, on youtube. (4K resolution or may be at least a Blu Ray quality).

Today, I noticed the film on Amazon Prime, Ultra release. Thought it to be the same as previous youtube postings that were not the same PQ as its 4K songs. Was presently surprised to see the full film in the same quality as its 4K songs postings on youtube. :D :D :D :D


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:43 pm 
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Quote:
FINALLY A GOOD PRINT OF RAJKUMAR (on Amazon Prime).

My fav film Shammi Kapoor - Sadhna's Rajkumar never had a decent DVD/ Blu Ray / VHS. Many other films of that era got good print DVDs but this Rajkumar did not catch anyone's attention to release in a good print.

2-3 Yrs back, finally saw a few songs (3) of the film, not only in good print but excellent print on youtube. (Search Rajkumar 4K). Recently, a fourth song also was posted, in 4K, on youtube. (4K resolution or may be at least a Blu Ray quality).

Today, I noticed the film on Amazon Prime, Ultra release. Thought it to be the same as previous youtube postings that were not the same PQ as its 4K songs. Was presently surprised to see the full film in the same quality as its 4K songs postings on youtube. :D :D :D :D


BUT

1) This excellent print has one critical segment missing (1 min) that the the movie plot makes not much sense.
2) Also identified another 4 min 23 sec, not so important segment, missing.
Quote:
(Both these segments are on Ultra Youtube (although only 135 min version) channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9gCSFQSm4M&t=6545s
but not in Ultra presentation on Amazon (165 min version)



1) Critical segment missing (1 min):
Whole plot is based on that Rajkumar does not say where he was at the time of murder. Why can not he say that ??
It's the Kaali Maa Temple sequence that his stepmother (Maharani) says that she was from a courtesan family. This much is in the Amazon presentation. What is missing is that Maharani tricks him to extract a pledge from Rajkumar that he will never disclose where he was at that time. Just a 1 min sequence but extremely critical that "Pran Jaaye Par Vachan Na Jaayee" is reminded multiple times throughout the film. Without this pledge, there is no reason why he can not he clear himself from the murder charge and the story does not exist.

2) Identified another 4 min 23 sec, not so important important segment, missing:
Segment between Rajkumar's arrest and Guards telling the King that Rajkumar has escaped, is missing (4 min 23 sec). This segment shows deliberations in the family and how Rajkumar escapes and his compulsions to be able to clear his name or surrender to maintail the family honour.

Quote:
Updating Runtimes:
Film 1964 CC shows 4907 meters which is 179 min. (Combining existing videos, we have 175 min 30 sec film time).

Esquire VHS: 168 min (175 min film time).

EROS DVD is 165 min 16 sec (172 min film time @ 4% speed up). Colors are good but some noise due to non-optimum tracking of VHS playback.

Moserbaer-Bombino DVD: 162 min 17 sec (169 min film time). Colors and PQ are better than EROS.

Not much is missing in any of the prints. Just a few frames missing here and there.

Amazon Prime: 165 min (looks like, it's not 4% speedup ??) and 5 min 20 sec segment identified (so far) as missing. 1 min very critical.



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:31 am 
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Another thing; Amazon Prime version is without PAL speedup. I’m watching it and comparing it with the old Ultra postings. The latter runs faster.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:52 pm 
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Ragz wrote:
Another thing; Amazon Prime version is without PAL speedup. I’m watching it and comparing it with the old Ultra postings. The latter runs faster.


Yes, you are right. Amazon Prime is not speed shifted.

------------------------------
I've been looking for an previous thread, where we could discuss 24 fps, 25 fps issues and not getting speed shift. Reason ??
Will do when I find it.

For now,
Consider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9gCSFQSm4M&t=3039s
where 'Stats For Nerds (Right click)' shows 25 fps and this 'Aayee Bahaar' song is 5 min 20 sec. (4% speed-up)

And
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7-d-7EWMHU
where 'Stats For Nerds (Right click)' shows 25 fps and this 'Aayee Bahaar' song is 5 min 41 sec. (25 fps but no 4% speed-up). For video not 4% speed up, I would have expected 24 fps and not 25 fps.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:16 am 
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Found a similar conversation on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13630&p=108630&hilit=Amrapali&sid=2f7b4070343f934122bb2c61d0633113#p108630


Ragz wrote:
rana wrote:
Ragz wrote:
Mr. Rana, I have noticed that YouTube's technical details list frame rate for most videos, and it seems accurate for most times. However, the songs of Amrapali run at film speed (my inference is based on the pitch of audio compared to the previous field averaged versions of the film) however, labeled as "25" in the attribute section. What are the odds here?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIlCqg__Nvg

Let's see what's going on in this clip. I brought this youtube video into my VLC player. VLC's video info clearly states 25 fps. You said, audio is 4% slower than 25 fps field averaged DVD video.

And yet, both statements can be true. I'm not 100% sure but most likely my findings will be same as any one else's (Of course video tech who mastered this video, knows for sure). I tried to frame advance frame by frame. Somehow VLC video timer did not advance (other videos, it does). And, many frame advance you advance one frame but many are repeat frames, sometimes 3 at a time. So, if the played audio at normal speed and inserted frames and filled up 25 fps, you do get no 4% speed up as well as normal audio speed. Ingenious! I do not know if there is auto program for that or if they did it painstakingly, frame by frame.
Now, as far as lyp sinc is concerned, if a frame gets repeated 5-6 times in a one second period, you won't get the lyp sinc problem.

I'll look into other clips later on, one by one.

--------------------------------------------
BTW, filling up frames technique can also be used to replace/ add damaged frames with repeated frames. Only 14 frames are required per second to fool the eye. 24 frames film standard was used for cushion.

Your insights and observations make so much sense. I'm glad to have the mystery solved, and I feel ashamed that this hadn't occurred to me earlier!
I apologize for not replying earlier as I most likely lost the notification of this. Thank you!


Another discussion:- viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12373&p=108800&hilit=Nimmi#p108801

rana wrote:
Ragz wrote:
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WslLYyTc6t8
Eagle version on youtube is 169 min but this too is at 25 fps indicating 4% speedup implying runtime 176 min.

This version is actually copied from a repaired version that is available online and runs at 24 fps.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE3i5na1TtA
This is the repaired version of AAN.

The songs in the two uploads show no difference when played side by side. Therefore, it can be concluded that both these uploads are sans any PAL speedup. The Eagle version consists of some kind of manipulation in frame rate causing the film to stay at film speed, but show 25 frames every second. I don't know the technical reasons for this, but I have seen a lot of these repaired 24 fps films to be copied and then to run at 25 fps when uploaded by other studios (and their YouTube channels), albeit maintaining film speed.


An AAN thread exists on the forums.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4415&


I too have no clue how 24 fps changes to 25 fps without any speed difference and also without any repeated frames & "without associated fuzziness if field averaged", in altered frame rate.

I too checked video speed in 24 fps video and in 25 fps video and found no difference in speed.


Finally: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7713&p=60436&hilit=Talash#p108744


rana wrote:
Ragz wrote:
rana wrote:
At this website, it's 186 min. (Film CC 1979). It's 25 fps implying a 4% speed-up. Then this must be the full version 193-194 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11nqml64K-k

This version is not speed-up. It runs at film speed, despite being at 25fps.


This throws in another monkey wrench in trying to figure-out whether 25fps youtube clips are 4% speedup or not. I did notice this in another video clip where the source is 24 fps Progressive DVD but the youtube is coded as 25 fps and the frame advance clearly advances every 2, every 3 clicks (24 to 60 conversion). Can't think how they accomplish 25 fps with that and no speed shift ??


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:40 pm 
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rana wrote:
I've been looking for an previous thread, where we could discuss 24 fps, 25 fps issues and not getting speed shift. Reason ??
Will do when I find it.

For now,
Consider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9gCSFQSm4M&t=3039s
where 'Stats For Nerds (Right click)' shows 25 fps and this 'Aayee Bahaar' song is 5 min 20 sec. (4% speed-up)

And
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7-d-7EWMHU
where 'Stats For Nerds (Right click)' shows 25 fps and this 'Aayee Bahaar' song is 5 min 41 sec. (25 fps but no 4% speed-up). For video not 4% speed up, I would have expected 24 fps and not 25 fps.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7-d-7EWMHU
This one was easy to figure out. Youtube video is 25 fps, but every 24th frame is repeated (25) and hence keeps the speed of 24 fps orig film speed.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 1:19 pm 
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With Youtube, more and more Bollywood film videos are becoming available. Some of those of the films where none existed before or a total crap was available before. One of the 70s film (Joy Mukherjee's INSPECTOR) that I liked, never found a good print and even if a bad print, not complete glamour song (Pee Le) sequence in climax. This film was recently posted in excellent (Digital 25 fps) print. Clear distinct frames.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MPwEAiS7xQ
As the frames were clearly distinct, one could easily count that although video is 25fps (film is 24 fps), there is no 4% speed up as every 24th frame is repeated in 25th.

rana wrote:
rana wrote:
I've been looking for an previous thread, where we could discuss 24 fps, 25 fps issues and not getting speed shift. Reason ??
Will do when I find it.

For now,
Consider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9gCSFQSm4M&t=3039s
where 'Stats For Nerds (Right click)' shows 25 fps and this 'Aayee Bahaar' song is 5 min 20 sec. (4% speed-up)

And
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7-d-7EWMHU
where 'Stats For Nerds (Right click)' shows 25 fps and this 'Aayee Bahaar' song is 5 min 41 sec. (25 fps but no 4% speed-up). For video not 4% speed up, I would have expected 24 fps and not 25 fps.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7-d-7EWMHU
This one was easy to figure out. Youtube video is 25 fps, but every 24th frame is repeated (25) and hence keeps the speed of 24 fps orig film speed.

Posted another case (the beginning of this post) of film INSPECTOR that is 25 fps video and no speed shift.


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