Just to add a bit on the YDA comparison shots; the trailer shots are slightly cropped so hence the length differs on the screen shots, but also bear in mind the extra viewable picture shown height wise on the bottom screen shots (because it's not been properly matted, while the trailer shots have been).

Ali

Third post but I can also hazard a guess why this problem exists :turn:

You’ll find that most these DEI DVDs are squashed by 10% approx. This is the same percentage the splice or rough top and bottom edges needs covering for it to be properly framed and presented at the theatrical aspect ratio. Since DEI have never covered splice marks on their DVDs, they can never present the film at its correct AR.

Example, say a films original aspect ratio is 2.40:1 – this is its meant AR at cinemas and on DVD. DEI get a print (negative or otherwise – never understood or looked up the differences) which has the film at 2.30:1 – it shows more image on top and bottom which is never meant to be shown. It’s covered (matted) so that aspect ratio is back to 2.40:1 – and it plays back without any rough edges top and bottom.

Now knowing that original AR is 2.40:1, what DEI does is take 2.30:1 and frame it 2.40:1 – squashing the image.

Pictures for demo :where: ;







Top picture: represents the attended cinema aspect ratio 2.40:1 (if you gonna measure exactly then its 2.43:1 :p )

Middle picture represents the negative at 2.30:1 with splice marks in red – these red bits are never meant to seen and are covered up when played in cinemas by a process called matting so that the final picture will look like the first top picture.

Bottom picture represents what DEI does on its DVDs. Its taken the middle picture and squashes it at 2.40 (or 2.43 to be accurate). The difference is subtle but there is a squash which some people notice others don’t. This is what I think DEI does.

Why don’t they own up to it? Because their entire catalogue is plagued by this problem bar a few titles or maybe something to be ego :rolleyes: Like I say problem is subtle, but it is there. In the end it all depends on the individual if it bothers them or not.

Ali

I apologise, I did not quite make it clear enough that I am not Sandish (DEI Boss), but was simply forwarding on Sandish’s comments (word for word) received via e-mail on the main grievances raised through Zulm. My agenda is simply to obtain answers to questions deemed pertinent to people with an interest in raising the standards of Indian DVDs.

Who the F--k are you kidding? Just fix your frigging black box or at least read the owners manual before using it!

Like Ali said who the hell are we?

Oui, pourquoi pas. Alors. Ce que je veut dire c'est que
le squashing problème n'est pas très prononcé pour moi.
Je m'intéresse beaucoup plus de DNR...

Better continue in English.

DEI, are you listening??

What bothers me about DEI DVDs is the noise reduction.
I'd like to hear from DEI why it is as bad as it is and
why it can not be improved upon.
DEI seems to have this position:
1. Indian film masters are so dirty and scratched etc. that
use of noise reduction is a must. Not using it will cause
customers to riot and probably make compression a lot
worse
2. Noise reduction a la DEI can not be improved upon without
investment in time and money not feasible to DEI for the
time being.

I think 1. is debatable. I'm not sure people will riot if
DEI DVDs had no noise reduction and more visible film
artifacts as now (but also no noise reduction artifacts as
well!). Do Indians riot when confronted with awful Eros DVDs?
No, they don't. For very long films compression could
be more difficult without noise reduction. But there is also
the option to use a low pass filter that adds no motion
artifacts or use 3-4 layers for a film. The DVD should
look like the film master, not an ugly digital film-video
b***** with artifacts alien to film.
2. I also think that there is no valid excuse for tuning
noise reduction filters so they create obvious flickering
and smearing on moving objects. Here the filters are simply
not adapted to the shots in question. Why? Lack of time?
How much more does it cost to tune the filters properly?
I'd really like to know why there is no progress in this
area. Criterion has also old films to deal with and usually
DNR artifacts are minor (not always). Other Western labels
deal with old material all the time. None have so ugly DNR
problems as DEI, some using the same equipment. How come??

Finally, why does DEI apply edge enhancement?? It looks
bad on good quality screens, awful when projecting a DVD
on a large screen. What's the point?? Enhanced edges
compress harder, real detail is messed with and the pseudo
sharp look benefits only people with small screens sitting
far away. But these can have the same effect by using the
sharpness control on the TV set. No need to forcefeed
everyone haloes around high contrast contours. Why is DEI
applying edge enhancement???

cheers
Michel Hafner

Hey SAZ no problem, there’s never any need to apologise here. I kinda of gathered as much it being from an email from DEI. Which doesn’t surprise me really, like I say they are hardly going to own up an error thats been pointed out by many people before (for over a year now). More so depressing is the fact that is the best Indian DVDs have to offer

Ali

But that is the whole point. The level and type of restoration should be determined by the quality of the original.

SAZ, you said you are not DEI. Well, you made us respond in detail. It will be worth it if DEI sees postings in this thread and if we can convince DEI that we are not on any smear campaign; just trying to get a problem fixed, which DEI is not even acknowledging.

Here is my another 2 cents worth of evidence of squashed video:

EK RISHTA:
Look at full moon shot in the song "Ek Dil Hai ---". The moon covers almost full height of the screen, so, there can't be much uncertainty. The moon is at least 8 percent squashed. The same moon in TV promotions is an exact circle, the way it should be.

Rana

Since this was originally meant to be a DEI titles thread :wot:

Satyamev Jayate DVD is out;



Ali

Okay Folks Bad News here !!!
--------------------------------

Just got this confirmed news from the DEI Office, that they wont be releasing An Evening in Paris this weekend ( and this means no more previously authored EVP titled DVDs also coming out from DEI ). This was because there has been some major disagreement with EVP over the title releases ( and apparently EVP also was/is in the process of releasing them).

Before anyone jumps on me for the veracity of this fact, let me assure that this has been confirmed by DEI.

Bah ! One more broken promise from DEI... Lets wait and see what happens. Will keep u updated with more info.

This is the worst kind of bull I've heard in a long while. The use of Gold/Silver media does not effect the quality of picture or sound in a DVD and no one is claiming it either. But the fact is it definately has an effect on the reflectivity and durability of the DVD. Which translates into poorer reading of the second layer in the case of Silver discs. For a movie with a shorter running time and which does not require a second layer, the use of gold or silver disc is not an issue, but for movies that require a second layer on the DVD it most certainly is. It is strongly recommended that Gold media be used for DVDs with a second layer and that is why all Hollywood DVDs with a second layer use Gold media. Or maybe they are just crazy while DEI knows better.
The second part of DEI's statement is even more ridiculous, that the replications plants rather than the producer of the DVD have a say in what kind of media is used. It is what you pay them which determines what media is used. Why is it that intially DEI or for that matter all the other Indian DVD companies were using Gold media, but then later switched to using Silver media? Infact in the case of DEI this switch is a much more recent phenomenon. I presume DEI figured if the other companies can get away with it, then why not them. After all Silver media does cost less than Gold media. It's all about making a quick buck, to hell with quality and the customer.

PS: I own and operate a DVD rental library and here are some facts for you to ponder over. On an average for each Hindi DVD we get there are atleast 10 English DVDs. Now keep that in mind when I tell you that, Hindi DVDs go bad (meaning stop working) in an average of 8 rentals, whereas the English DVDs don't go bad even after 70 - 80 rentals other than a rare case where the customer has scratched the DVD very badly. Of course even with Silver media there are different quality of media available, which explains why even amongst Hindi Silver DVDs there is a difference between DVDs of different companies. I do admit that DEI DVDs do tend to last longer than other Hindi DVDs, whereas Video Sound DVDs are the worst and the go bad in 4 - 5 rentals. Infact there have been time times when Video Sound DVDs did not play even brand new. I guess DEI use slightly better quality Silver media for their DVDs while Video Sound uses the absolute worst or should I say the cheapest media available. Anyhow these problems I have never seen with Gold media Hindi DVDs which pretty much last the same as their English DVD counterparts.



Edited By Sanjay on Mar. 14 2002 at 10:11

Hurray! ladies and GENTLEMEN! here I present SANDISH from DEI, with another CREDIBILITY issue!no EVP titles any more!!
Mann!!TNBPG!! kabhi bhi!

Fellow Zulmies don't take this personally but you lot amaze me sometimes. While DEI have some issues to resolve they are not as bad as others in the game of Indian DVD. I'm surprised that no-one here is just as devoted to make sure EROS, Video-Sound or even Tips hears our complaint. Why I haven't heard anyone be just as bitchy to the other companies. Once upon a time I was always bitching to all of these companies but now I don't even bother as DVD fans and simply consumers aren't intrested at all about quality they just wanna watch the film.

mhafner why don't write a list of what EROS or even Ayngaran should do to improve quality? After all they reach the mainstream DVD audience in the market, while DEI reaches a niche market.

Kudos to DEI who are at least listening to us, even if any of your don't agree with them but shouldn't you Zulmies get others to do the same?

If I have come on too strong then I do appoligise but I just had to let it out.



Edited By Shahran Sunny Audit on Mar. 16 2002 at 22:48

this is exactly the reason the quality of Indian DVDs is getting worse with each new release. I noticed a strange thing this weekend here at some of India stores. They are only renting pirateed K3G DVD and are NOT willing to rent the original. They only want to sell it. I think no one insisted to ask for original. I said I will rent only the original and the store guy didn't give a damn to me. I walked away without renting. Hope more of our consumers do that. Of course, later my wife went in and got the pirated DVD

Sunny, firstly I think that most people here on Zulm think that Eros, Videosound and the rest are lost causes - the only company who seemed to ever give a damn about quality was DEi, and there are plenty of previous threads indicating that.]

You say DEi are listening to us - are they? If so, how? From what I have gthered from this thread is that they have denied that there is a problem with the incorrect framing of their more recent DVDs.

From what I can remember, zulmis have shown a lot of support for DEi in the past, and I'm sure that we'll continue to do so, but as long as DEi are straight forward about what they are doing. It would be nice if they stuck to their word from now on (think Mission Kashmir and Haan Maine Bhi Pyaar Kiya).

I hope no-one takes this post in the wrong way - I have nothing against DEi, and definitely nothing against Sunny. A question was asked, and I answered it in the way I thought best