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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 10:24 pm 
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Not really, in zulmi lingo, it will be pal to ntsc, field averaged, like KMG..
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JamesBond007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:00 am 
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Quote:
By field average, I thought it meant PAL to NTSC, where fields from different film frames are mixed. In this case, it would be film to NTSC, or "pseudo progressive" in Zulmi lingo.


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Not really, in zulmi lingo, it will be pal to ntsc, field averaged, like KMG..


Wotever! It's all relative and the object of endless passionate debates! :D It's considered taboo for Indian DVDs to be authored in this fashion? ??? Then why all the excitement? Huh? Double standards? :p
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DragunR2
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:15 am 
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JamesBond007 wrote:
Quote:
By field average, I thought it meant PAL to NTSC, where fields from different film frames are mixed. In this case, it would be film to NTSC, or "pseudo progressive" in Zulmi lingo.


Quote:
Not really, in zulmi lingo, it will be pal to ntsc, field averaged, like KMG..


Wotever! It's all relative and the object of endless passionate debates! :D It's considered taboo for Indian DVDs to be authored in this fashion? ??? Then why all the excitement? Huh? Double standards? :p

Film to PAL to NTSC is a no-no, but film to PAL or film to NTSC is okay. I said before that progressive is not a buying issue for me, so I don't mind "pseudo progressive," considering the decent sharpness and color on most of Ayngaran's transfers.

If Kaaka Kaaka is indeed film to PAL to NTSC, I will leave this at a rental, but if they're going to the trouble to do DTS-ES and DD-EX, they might as well do the video properly as well.

Sunny, just to clarify, film to NTSC or film to PAL to NTSC?



Edited By DragunR2 on 1066285017
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:23 pm 
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[If Kaaka Kaaka is indeed film to PAL to NTSC, I will leave this at a rental, but if they're going to the trouble to do DTS-ES and DD-EX, they might as well do the video properly as well.

Sunny, just to clarify, film to NTSC or film to PAL to NTSC? ]

I , very STRONGLY, FEEL the same way..they should just do, decent DD Rental version, sell through/rental..first
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kits
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:38 am 
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I heard KAAKKA KAAKKA will be a DVD 14 version with the making of the film and the commentary of the Director on the film. This film is mixed with the Dolby Digital-ES Surround and the DTS-EX from original tracks. It also comes with interesting Interactive Menu. Should be out in the stands by Diwali.

It's authored at Prasad Digital who will soon have their website that lists all DVDs authored by them which includes most Ayangaram, almost all EVP, and many new YashRaj Titles.

One reason DVDs authored at Prasad look better than at other Indian authoring facilities is first, they take lot of time to do short by short correction for telecine and then take lot of effort and time to encode it to MPEG2. Also, unlike most facilites these guys directly encode the film to MPEG2 from telecine instead of first making a Digital BetaCam copy. This preserves the high quality of source on DVD.

As most here think, it's not just a simple switch to author DVDs in Progressive Format. It takes them to replace their Telecine equipment and even their encoding hardware. All this is very expensive for Indian market but, Prasad is very close to doing that. Hopefully, by the end of this year.

Some affordable solutions for Indian market are to use software converters like Apple's FinalCut Pro or Read Gaint's Magic Bullet software. But then, these are software solutions and hence no good. What these softwares can do is convert 29.97fps (NTSC frame rate) telecine source to 24P and then encode it to MPEG2 format.
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Shahran Sunny Audit
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:59 pm 
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Prasad always take from negs and transfer to NTSC on DVD.

Only when "kanjoos" companies like Yash Raj gives them a PAL digibeta does Prasad have to do PAL to NTSC...
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 3:06 pm 
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Sunny or Kult, can u show us some proove of magic bullet usage!!? :baaa:
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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 3:56 pm 
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kits wrote:
As most here think, it's not just a simple switch to author DVDs in Progressive Format. It takes them to replace their Telecine equipment and even their encoding hardware. All this is very expensive for Indian market but, Prasad is very close to doing that. Hopefully, by the end of this year.

Thanks kits for explaining the process.

Just a comment about what we have been calling 'Progressive'.

With progressive, we mean Film mode NTSC DVDs, like DEI/ BEI NTSC DVDs and 99% of NTSC DVDs of Hollywood films. Even though we call it Progressive, the picture info is recorded in 2 fields for each film frame. This by definition is Interlaced, not progressive. But, in good quality NTSC DVDs of 24 frame per sec film, each frame is recorded in two fields (interlaced) with an instruction (flag) to repeat every 4th field, instead of recording the same field all over again, to give the 5th field necessary for 24 to 60 conversion. For Progressive DVD players, these repeat flags come handy for weaving the two fields back to the original film frame.

Rana
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:03 pm 
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Well, If PARSAD does TELECINE NTSC transfer, how come YRF are CRAPS, field averaged.. and If ayangran stuff is done from NTSC telecine, why sunny calls it field averaged?

Now it seems like hindi dvd makers putting things in hands of consumers? buy MAGIC BULLET and If u want RECREATE PROOG DVD? :nopity: :bangbang:
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DragunR2
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:44 pm 
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arsh wrote:
Well, If PARSAD does TELECINE NTSC transfer, how come YRF are CRAPS, field averaged.. and If ayangran stuff is done from NTSC telecine, why sunny calls it field averaged?

Now it seems like hindi dvd makers putting things in hands of consumers? buy MAGIC BULLET and If u want RECREATE PROOG DVD? :nopity: :bangbang:

Maybe by field averaged, Sunny meant not 24p.

I don't understand why YRF gives Prasad PAL copies of new movies like MDK and KMG. YRF definitely has access to prints of new movies. Isn't it just an extra step to make a PAL copy and give it to them?
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:29 pm 
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Well, I am waiting, sunny audit to clarify his point here, pls.. :baaa:
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kits
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:39 pm 
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rana wrote:
Just a comment about what we have been calling 'Progressive'.

With progressive, we mean Film mode NTSC DVDs, like DEI/ BEI NTSC DVDs and 99% of NTSC DVDs of Hollywood films. Even though we call it Progressive, the picture info is recorded in 2 fields for each film frame. This by definition is Interlaced, not progressive. But, in good quality NTSC DVDs of 24 frame per sec film, each frame is recorded in two fields (interlaced) with an instruction (flag) to repeat every 4th field, instead of recording the same field all over again, to give the 5th field necessary for 24 to 60 conversion. For Progressive DVD players, these repeat flags come handy for weaving the two fields back to the original film frame.

Rana

I guess that enables the Progressive DVD players to use the 3:2 pull-down function! What I was told by people at Mantra Labs(Ramoji Film Studios - Hyderabad), most Indian labs have old telecine equipment that doesn't do 24 frames. From what I learned from them, the telecine has to be done in 24P and while authoring, the encoder puts instruction (flag) to repeat certain fields.

I wonder if DEI gets the negative here to US to make their DVDs? From my knowledge Telugu producers won't allow the negative to leave the studios in HYD or Chennai. Morever, it gets too expensive for Telugu market to author DVDs in US from scratch!
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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:57 pm 
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kits wrote:
I wonder if DEI gets the negative here to US to make their DVDs? From my knowledge Telugu producers won't allow the negative to leave the studios in HYD or Chennai. Morever, it gets too expensive for Telugu market to author DVDs in US from scratch!

Except for a few, all the Film mode DVDs (Progressive), of Indian films, telecine was done in US (DEI, Super Digital, Dot Media, Sai Digital). Film positive or a Film Negative may have been used.

There also are many DVDs in Video mode where NTSC telecine was OK, but the DVD encoding doesn't include repeat field sequence. Even, some Shemaroo DVDs are this way and am sure those NTSC telecine were done by themselves in India. Step by step advance shows every 5th field as repeated field (with some noise).

Majority of Indian DVDs coming out now a days, contain no repeat field sequence and each field contains averaged information coming out of more than one film frame.

Rana
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:05 pm 
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But for SUB STANDARD work, we the CONSUMERS charged PRIME PRICE? :baaa: :hmm: :angry:

DEI brings negative here, and do telecine and still charges are much lowere comare to YRF/AYANGRAN/EROS/SPARK..etc etc..Crappy DVDs, New or old!!
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Shahran Sunny Audit
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:38 pm 
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I apologise for the confusion but Kaaka Kaaka is actually NTSC interlaced from NTSC telecine -> digibeta!

I can show you examples of magic bullet, but I haven't the time to show postings on net...too busy...but it does work quite well. I convert most of my DVD+R's with this software, with help of adobe effects.
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