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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 11:44 am 
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you always blame bollywood as a copycat. i live in germany and i am past 30. i spend my whole life watching movies from all over the world small and big. i can asure you that most of the films that hollywood is doing since the 1950s are copys of movies from europe and asia. the only difference to bollywood is that most of the movies they copy are small movies that are not well known outside their countrys of origin. more people are seeing the hollywood remake.

what most of you people (no offence!!!) see are remakes and inspirations from movies you just did not know existed earlier as some small movie in some country of the this world. thats all. no super original hollywood. if you do not blame hollywood you should not blame bollywood just because they steal from movies seen by more people because they are from america.

and one more important thing: believe it or not but bollywood remakes are more original and fun as the very lame hollywood remakes of european and asien cinema.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 12:26 pm 
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Location: London, England
I see your point but when hollywood does it, they are very subtle. You can barely tell its a copy/remake unless they state it or it is blatantly obvious. Another thing, hollywood usually only copies/remakes films that are really old and it is felt that the original is very outdated in terms of special effects, dialogue and sometimes plot.

Another thing, when remaking a movie, you have to make sure that its better than the original otherwise whats the point? Its true that this is not always the case as some remakes have flopped (Time Machine, Planet of the Apes) but most of them have gone on to become super hits(Bourne Identity, Oceans Eleven) compared to their originals.

Bollywood fails to do this in almost every occaision. I couldnt help but laugh at Awara Pagal Deewana. Scenes remade from so many great hollywood movies. The matrix scene made me shake my head. What was the point? The fims it copied were probably less than 4 years old and the matrix scene looked exactly the same. Vikram Bhatt might as well have copied the scene of the matrix dvd and pasted Akshays head on top of keanu.

Analyze This i didnt like the hollywood version so the bollywood version HKKN was even poorer and had quite a few scene for scene copies. Again the hollywood movie was quite new so i dont basically see the point. Its just directors trying to cash in on other peoples work.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 12:51 pm 
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what you wrote is the best example for what i wrote about. you do not know the movies the americans remake. they remake new movies too. vanailla sky came really fast. vanishing has been quit fast. ring took 3 years. that is not long. nightwatch has been fast, too. there are a lot of examples from the resent past. a very popular example from older times is RANSOM. original is from akira kurosawa HIGH RISK. they remade it with Glen Ford and later again with Mel Gibson. this list i can write on forever. old and new movies are remade all the time. did you know that True Lies is based on a small french comedy. Nikita was remade within 2 years only. and the nikita remake is a good example how bad they do it most of the time.

hollywood is not better, they just have more money.
and they steal more chori chori chupke chupke.

do not destroy your own movie culture by trying to make worldcinema that everybody loves. that killed the Hong Kong filmindustrie. now they make movies like everybody else.
company is a very very good movie, but it is worldcinema that takes away a part of indien movieculture.

i hope you understand me and are not angry with me.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 4:57 pm 
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i agree with you Hakaida
i have recently discovered this, i know :stupid:
films like Vanilla Sky (wasn't this made by the same director who did the original one), The Postman, etc.
some of them that you mentioned, i did not know about them
i basically watch hindi, and American films

there should be a website where such things are mentioned


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 7:42 pm 
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Vanilla Sky (Cameron Crowe) was a remake of Abre Los Ojos (Alejandro Amenabar). But there was credit saying "Based on a screenplay by" for VS. Alejandro Amenabar also directed The Others, starring Nicole Kidman.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 9:11 pm 
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why are we arguing about american movies??? they atleast give credit to the person they get the movie info from or if its a remake....also, whenever they copy, atleast most of them turn out to be good too.....and most american movies the story they get is from Novels...you always see this "Based on the Novel by"....but indian cinema, no effort at all....and they dont even give credit when they copy/remake....they try to fool people claiming its theirs....now thats bad....


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 9:27 pm 
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Location: NYC, USA
How about City on Fire (or Hong Kong on Fire as Sanjay Gupta likes to call it :D ) -> Reservoir Dogs.
You'll be suprised to see that even a lot of Hollywood films are copied (specially from the far east), but since most people don't watch these obscure movies, Hollywood can get away with it. I've talked to a lot of my friends from that area, and they can clearly point out inspirations. Our dumbass Bollywood directors on the other hand, choose to copy big Hollywood movies, which the whole world has seen and can easily point out a ripoff. Ofcourse copying is a lot more prevalent in Bollywood, but Hollywood isn't as honest as people think either.

EDIT: Went back and actually read pg 1 of this thread, and realized that I repeated a lot of what was already said. :rolleyes:




Edited By MalFUnXiON on 1035761221


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 10:25 pm 
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Location: London, England
Lets just end this topic with this because it seems to be going nowhere:

1. Bollywood has had some troubled times before but it will always get through because so many people watch the films.

2. Films flop but the ones that succeed make it big and kind of make up for all the little flops.

3. Ideas, inspiration have to come from somewhere, borrowing ideas from somewhere else and making good use of it is not a bad thing. Plaguarising Ideas is a bad thing.

4. We all love indian cinema, we love it for the good old song and dance routines, we love it for the indian style humour that would bedazzle gora's, we love it for the Dushm Dushm fight scenes and we love the romance. We love it else we wouldnt be here.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 9:40 pm 
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DragunR2 wrote:
Abre Los Ojos

Isn't it also known as "Open Your Eyes". This movie (english subtitles) too starred Penelope Cruz. I liked this movie better than Vanilla Sky.

Rana


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:08 am 
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rana wrote:
DragunR2 wrote:
Abre Los Ojos

Isn't it also known as "Open Your Eyes". This movie (english subtitles) too starred Penelope Cruz. I liked this movie better than Vanilla Sky.

Rana

That's the film. I rented it once, but never got around to watching it. VS was only okay, though.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 7:33 pm 
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DragunR2 wrote:
rana wrote:
DragunR2 wrote:
Abre Los Ojos

Isn't it also known as "Open Your Eyes". This movie (english subtitles) too starred Penelope Cruz. I liked this movie better than Vanilla Sky.

Rana

That's the film. I rented it once, but never got around to watching it.

Then, for sure you missed the famous Penelope Cruz scene (Open Your Eyes) that the movie was famous for.

Rana


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 6:27 pm 
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I think this TOPIC got SIDE TRACKED! lets put this on RIGHT TRACK>>>


How original is Bollywood?
The year 2002 has a landmark number of Hindi films inspired by Hollywood films

**** I AGREE a PATHETIC year !!!



Raj Kapoor did it. His lovable screen persona of a village bumpkin trapped within the corrupt surroundings of a big city in Shri 420 (1956), was inspired by Charlie Chaplin's world famous tramp. And Chori Chori, the 1957 romantic comedy with Kapoor and Nargis, in parts resembled Frank Capra's Oscar-wining classic It Happened One Night (1934).

Just recently Yash Chopra, another showman in the style of Kapoor, produced Mere Yaar Ki Shaadi Hai. By all accounts, the film was derived from the Hollywood hit My Best Friend's Wedding (1997), even though Chopra's younger son, actor and producer Uday, would not like to comment on the charge.

"We are not really saying anything as far as that is concerned," Uday Chopra said with a sheepish grin, when asked recently about the similarities between the two films.



The year 2002 has seen several Hindi films which owe their existence to recent Hollywood products, films like Raaz (What Lies Beneath), Awara Paagal Deewana (The Whole Nine Yards), Shakti (Not Without My Daughter), Humraaz (A Perfect Murder) and Deewangee (Primal Fear).

And soon to be released, director Sanjay Gupta's big budget production Kaante which, if word of mouth is to be believed, is a copy of Quentin Tarantino's 1992 cult classic Reservoir Dogs. Although not many people have seen Kaante, according to imbd.com, the film has six criminals with nicknames like Major, Ajju, the Bouncer, Bali, Andy and Mak.

Reservoir Dogs had mastermind Joe Cabot put together a group of five criminals with aliases like Mr Pink, Mr Orange, Mr White, Mr Blonde and Nice Guy Eddie.

Reports indicate that the producers of Kaante plan to release two different versions of the film in North America. A longer version, with songs, for the South Asian expatriate community, and a shorter version, minus the songs, for the mainstream American market.

"Anyone who will be honest will say that there are a number of Indian films that have taken ideas from Hollywood, whether it is direct steal or whether it is influenced by," says Hollywood producer Ashok Amritraj (Bandits, Moonlight Mile). "However, I do not know this film (Kaante). I do not know the depth of how far they have gone. So it is hard to comment."

Amritraj adds that he does not believe that a film like Kaante would create much of a ripple affect in Hollywood. "The idea of a Hindi film working to a mainstream American audience is highly unlikely in my mind," he says. "It has never happened thus far."

Amritraj points out to the case of Ashutosh Gowariker's Lagaan. Earlier this summer, as an experiment to test the market, Sony Pictures Classics released Lagaan for the crossover audience in the US. But the film grossed an insignificant amount in the US box office, approximately $1 million. These figures include Lagaan's first run (in August 2001) at Indian theatres in North America.

"The easiest way to judge a film is by its box-office receipts," Amritraj says. "If a movie hasn't made $25 million to $30 million, it really hasn't crossed over."

The reason that no legal action has been taken against Bollywood filmmakers so far is because Hollywood studios are unaware of the plagiarism charges. "Indian movies are so far under the radar and no Hollywood executive is aware. I still think the audience for Hindi films is primarily Indian, however it is released, with or without songs," Amritraj continues.

He gives examples of blockbuster foreign films that have had huge successes in North America --- Amelie, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Life Is Beautiful and Cinema Paradiso. "I am not saying that Bollywood films aren't good," he adds. "They are terrific, good quality films. But they have yet to attract a Western audience in North America."

Hollywood's copyright laws are often championed by the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), a Washington DC-based organisation that also assigns movie ratings to films released in the US.

"Borrowing ideas, scripts and remaking them in different cultural contexts is a part of international cinema," says Rich Taylor, vice president of public affairs at MPAA. "But there is a right way of going about it," he adds. "That will be to license the right to use for the underlying material. The wrong way is to just take the ideas."

Without commenting on the case of Kaante vs Reservoir Dogs, Taylor says there are different ways in which a film's copyright can be tampered with, "from the actual picking up of a script and adding musical numbers to taking a concept that inspires the making of another film."

But any of those decisions and charges have to be first made by a Hollywood studio, he says.

Reservoir Dogs has been available on video for several years. Recently, Artisan Entertainment released a special edition DVD of the film. Paul Pflug, head of publicity at Artisan says he will not comment about the reported similarities between Kaante and Reservoir Dogs until he has seen the Indian film.

In any case, if any legal action is ever taken against the producers of Kaante, that would be the job of Miramax or the French film production company Canal, both of which own the copyright to Reservoir Dogs.

"We, at Miramax, especially Harvey (Weinstein) have a great appreciation for the creativity and the history of Bollywood projects," says Matthew Hiltzik, senior vice president at Miramax's corporate communication department. Like Pflug, Hiltzik does not want to comment on this case, without having seen Kaante. "I hate it when people comment on our films without having seen them. So I don't want to commit the sin that people commit to us. It is not like we anticipate a problem, but obviously we reserve the right to do something when we see the film."

Hollywood may want to remain quiet about Kaante until the film is actually released, but in India there has been a lot of talk about the Bollywood-imitating-Hollywood trend.

Daily Variety recently spoke to several Indian filmmakers about the issue. The Hollywood daily newspaper quoted Vikram Bhatt, director of Raaz and Awara Paagal Deewana as saying, 'Films are not about creativity, originality or vision. They are about entertaining audiences across the board. Once you understand and accept that an idea always existed before you did, then you look at the whole aspect of 'copying' in a different light.'

Bhatt acknowledges that the Indian film industry copies ideas and themes from other sources. 'The chief reason for this plagiarism is that there are not too many good original scripts around,' he says. 'There is a dearth of good writers in the (Indian) industry because, unlike Hollywood, the system doesn't invest in writers.'

Bhatt's uncle and producer of Raaz, Mahesh Bhatt dismissed the significance of the discussion. 'It's only entertainment, for heaven's sake, not some high art form to be worshipped with incense and hymns,' he told Daily Variety.

Earlier, while promoting Raaz, the older Bhatt was quoted in the press as saying the film was not inspired by a Hollywood film. "For the first time in my career, we have worked upon experiences that people felt and narrated, and developed a story out of it. Vikram Bhatt firmly believes in the supernatural and the one incident that happened to him convinced him to make a film out of it.'

The truth clearly lies somewhere in between. Finally it is the audience that decides if they like a film with an original plot or not. Raaz, incidentally, is one of the biggest Bollywood hits in India of 2002.

Bollywood has other defenders, including some in the US. Philip Lutgendorf, associate professor of Hindi and Modern Indian Studies at the University of Iowa and a lover of Bollywood cinema, disagrees with the allegations against the Indian film industry.

"If you really know Hollywood and Bollywood films, you realise that they (the Hindi film industry) may borrow certain things, certain ideas and techniques. But in fact, Indian cinema is fiercely independent of Hollywood," Lutgendorf says. "It is perhaps the most independent cinema of the mass cinemas of the world, in that it sticks to its own narrative agenda and its aesthetics strategies."

"Filmmakers borrow all the time. The Magnificent Seven is borrowed from Seven Samurai of (Akira) Kurosawa and nobody thinks that is bad. Artistes pick things, take ideas and do things with them. When Hindi filmmakers borrow things, they always remake them into something different which is culturally relevant and addresses very different set of concerns."

Lutgendorf believes that Bollywood filmmakers borrow from Hollywood because they perceive that the centre of world style, fashion and wealth is in the West and they want to keep up with it. "That said," he adds, "it is still the case that nearly all borrowing is filtered through a heavy cultural sieve involving what Indian audiences expect or will accept as well as the tastes of the directors themselves"

Nearly 20 years ago, Oscar winner for Lifetime Achievement Satyajit Ray alleged that Steven Spielberg had plagiarised portions of ET from a script that the Bengali director wrote in the 1960s.

Spielberg denied the changes and to date ET has grossed $757 million worldwide.

The debate on Bollywood borrowing from Hollywood will continue until a studio head in Los Angeles may decide to act on these charges. Hopefully, that might address another unresolved debate.

http://www.rediff.com/entertai/2002/oct/31bolly.htm




Edited By arsh on 1036088907


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